2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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Herr_Koos
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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Jolle wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 11:41 am
El Scorchio wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 11:28 am
radosav wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 11:22 am
any track limits this time?😅
Ha! The punishment for a first transgression shall be catastrophic suspension damage.
They should add a water feature at the swimming pool 😂
Does a harbor full of expensive yachts count?

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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radosav wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 11:22 am
any track limits this time?😅
There is always trouble with overtaking or defending by cutting the chicane after the tunnel. :)

The old, barriered, configuration prevented this. :wtf:

Image

A track limit which needs a remedy according to Perez:
It’s very disappointing, you only have one move in Monaco, and you do it and the car ahead cuts the chicane, and then he’s aware that you’re there and there’s no more opportunities. It’s definitely something we’ve got to speak about. In all fairness to the car ahead he gives space but then he has nowhere to go. I think there has to be a little chicane for the people who cut the chicane to lose some time. It’s something we have to review over the next couple of races.
https://wtf1.com/post/perez-thinks-mona ... -off-area/
Last edited by JordanMugen on Tue May 18, 2021 10:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Bandit1216
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 6:54 pm
Sieper wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 2:06 pm
radosav wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 11:22 am
any track limits this time?😅
Or Any, hold up others while entering the pits for a VSC double stack, penalties this time around?
What's this a moan about? Which race and who was disadvantaged?
I think he is referring to Bottas holding the pack up so Merc could double pitstop, hurting Verstappen.
But just suppose it weren't hypothetical.

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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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Bandit1216 wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 10:25 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 6:54 pm
Sieper wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 2:06 pm


Or Any, hold up others while entering the pits for a VSC double stack, penalties this time around?
What's this a moan about? Which race and who was disadvantaged?
I think he is referring to Bottas holding the pack up so Merc could double pitstop, hurting Verstappen.
This?

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/vide ... 91001.html
The Power of Honda!

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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JordanMugen wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 10:17 am

A track limit which needs a remedy according to Perez:
It’s very disappointing, you only have one move in Monaco, and you do it and the car ahead cuts the chicane, and then he’s aware that you’re there and there’s no more opportunities. It’s definitely something we’ve got to speak about. In all fairness to the car ahead he gives space but then he has nowhere to go. I think there has to be a little chicane for the people who cut the chicane to lose some time. It’s something we have to review over the next couple of races.
https://wtf1.com/post/perez-thinks-mona ... -off-area/
The thing about the chicane is that an attacking driver can effectively push the car ahead to cut the chicane. A lunge leaves nowhere to go for the defending driver other than to cut the chicane in some way. If there was another "punishment" chicane like Petez suggests, a driver could force the car ahead to cut the chicane making that car have to use the "punishment " chicane, whilst themselves using the real track. An overtake could then result. But it would be the result of pushing a driver off track, and that is illegal and so would/should be penalised. Can you imagine the fall out if the only overtake of the race is subsequently punished? :shock: :lol:

The reality is that Monaco simply isn't fit for purpose as a championship GP circuit.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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DChemTech
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 10:38 am
JordanMugen wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 10:17 am

A track limit which needs a remedy according to Perez:
It’s very disappointing, you only have one move in Monaco, and you do it and the car ahead cuts the chicane, and then he’s aware that you’re there and there’s no more opportunities. It’s definitely something we’ve got to speak about. In all fairness to the car ahead he gives space but then he has nowhere to go. I think there has to be a little chicane for the people who cut the chicane to lose some time. It’s something we have to review over the next couple of races.
https://wtf1.com/post/perez-thinks-mona ... -off-area/
The thing about the chicane is that an attacking driver can effectively push the car ahead to cut the chicane. A lunge leaves nowhere to go for the defending driver other than to cut the chicane in some way. If there was another "punishment" chicane like Petez suggests, a driver could force the car ahead to cut the chicane making that car have to use the "punishment " chicane, whilst themselves using the real track. An overtake could then result. But it would be the result of pushing a driver off track, and that is illegal and so would/should be penalised. Can you imagine the fall out if the only overtake of the race is subsequently punished? :shock: :lol:

The reality is that Monaco simply isn't fit for purpose as a championship GP circuit.
Not for racing something the size of a tourbus like modern F1 cars at least. Maybe they can just add one championship round in go-karts instead.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 10:38 am
JordanMugen wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 10:17 am

A track limit which needs a remedy according to Perez:
It’s very disappointing, you only have one move in Monaco, and you do it and the car ahead cuts the chicane, and then he’s aware that you’re there and there’s no more opportunities. It’s definitely something we’ve got to speak about. In all fairness to the car ahead he gives space but then he has nowhere to go. I think there has to be a little chicane for the people who cut the chicane to lose some time. It’s something we have to review over the next couple of races.
https://wtf1.com/post/perez-thinks-mona ... -off-area/
The thing about the chicane is that an attacking driver can effectively push the car ahead to cut the chicane. A lunge leaves nowhere to go for the defending driver other than to cut the chicane in some way. If there was another "punishment" chicane like Petez suggests, a driver could force the car ahead to cut the chicane making that car have to use the "punishment " chicane, whilst themselves using the real track. An overtake could then result. But it would be the result of pushing a driver off track, and that is illegal and so would/should be penalised. Can you imagine the fall out if the only overtake of the race is subsequently punished? :shock: :lol:

The reality is that Monaco simply isn't fit for purpose as a championship GP circuit.
It really isn't. If it wasn't Monaco it surely would have been dropped from the calendar long ago.

That chicane is really tricky. If you're the car behind then it's a really risky, brave, bordering on silly, move, but if you're the car in front and the car behind gets any part of their car overlapping with yours, even though the corner is still yours (and the car behind should cede position), then you HAVE to go straight on to avoid a collision. You have literally no choice- and you shouldn't be punished for it unless the other car has already gotten in front and 'taken' the corner. Once the car behind is committed, they can't just uncommit should it not go as they planned. I'm surprised there aren't loads more accidents there.

But as there's almost nowhere else to overtake, I can see why drivers feel they have to go for it. I don't expect either Verstappen or Hamilton to try anything risky there this year on each other. There's too much to be lost.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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JordanMugen wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 10:17 am
radosav wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 11:22 am
any track limits this time?😅
There is always trouble with overtaking or defending by cutting the chicane after the tunnel. :)

The old, barriered, configuration prevented this. :wtf:

https://www.formula1.com/content/dam/fo ... /image.jpg

A track limit which needs a remedy according to Perez:
It’s very disappointing, you only have one move in Monaco, and you do it and the car ahead cuts the chicane, and then he’s aware that you’re there and there’s no more opportunities. It’s definitely something we’ve got to speak about. In all fairness to the car ahead he gives space but then he has nowhere to go. I think there has to be a little chicane for the people who cut the chicane to lose some time. It’s something we have to review over the next couple of races.
https://wtf1.com/post/perez-thinks-mona ... -off-area/
The view in that pic is the one Coulthard had just before he parked his car in the jewellers shop there :D
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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Bandit1216
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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Wouter wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 10:29 am
Bandit1216 wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 10:25 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 6:54 pm


What's this a moan about? Which race and who was disadvantaged?
I think he is referring to Bottas holding the pack up so Merc could double pitstop, hurting Verstappen.
This?

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/vide ... 91001.html
More or less. If my memory serves me right, Bottas left a gap to not have to wait on Hamilton. Otherwise Max would have been 2nd out, possibly even 1st. Now he was 2nd (ish). One could argue whether the pace drop of Bottas was legal.
Last edited by Bandit1216 on Tue May 18, 2021 11:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
But just suppose it weren't hypothetical.

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Sieper
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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Bandit1216 wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 10:25 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 6:54 pm
Sieper wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 2:06 pm


Or Any, hold up others while entering the pits for a VSC double stack, penalties this time around?
What's this a moan about? Which race and who was disadvantaged?
I think he is referring to Bottas holding the pack up so Merc could double pitstop, hurting Verstappen.
As soon as people start using words as moan I don’t answer them anymore. I found that very unfair, especially as the result of that was penalized quite heavily. At least give Bottas a penalty too.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

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Bandit1216
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Location: Netherlands

Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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Ahh Well. Guess it's 100% chance of safety car this year. Are we allowed to say that?

One one side it's dumb to change the Monaco circuit, on the other hand, I always wondered why they can't lengthen the tunnel strait 200 meters and add a singe chicane instead of the double one. All the history there, but the races are booooooring.
Last edited by Bandit1216 on Tue May 18, 2021 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
But just suppose it weren't hypothetical.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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Sieper wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 11:18 am
Bandit1216 wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 10:25 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 6:54 pm


What's this a moan about? Which race and who was disadvantaged?
I think he is referring to Bottas holding the pack up so Merc could double pitstop, hurting Verstappen.
As soon as people start using words as moan I don’t answer them anymore. I found that very unfair, especially as the result of that was penalized quite heavily. At least give Bottas a penalty too.
Bottas was penalised - he had to pit a second time because of the "kiss" that Max gave him in the pit lane.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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I am unaware of any time penalties being administered by FIA for holding up the pack. The kiss was a result of that.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

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Bandit1216
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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No, but there is a minimum time (delta) under VSC.
But just suppose it weren't hypothetical.

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Sieper
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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I believe even the rules have been sharpened up (or are being enforced more strictly) due to that last Monaco infringement by Bottas. Since people have been penalized (I think at Monza or so, if I remember correctly). Still, you could use car 2 to keep car 1 safe and only car 2 would get a penalty. A (V)SC is indeed almost a given here and track position so vital.
Controversy does not have a short memory.