Logical fallacy. There were more than two possibilities.langedweil wrote: ↑08 Aug 2021, 05:35What you say means either one of two thing; Ves should have avoided the risk to defend on the outside (not to take a risk), or Ham took the risk deliberately whilst knowing the possible consequences in that corner (to take a risk) ..
IMHO, this example really has nothing to do with whatever you try to state.
This is a Facebook level post. Embarrassing levels of trolling from a member who has over 7800 posts on here.ringo wrote: ↑08 Aug 2021, 04:51Max is the GOAT. 7 years no titles. Just 15 wins, mediocre teammates who were basically rookies. Lost twice to his best teammate; who is being whooped by Norris. Drives a traction and braking monster in the RB cars so looks are deceiving. Gets outqualified by Perez before who isn't great at qualifying and when he gets the setup right has same race pace as Max.
But despite thes facts. He is better than all.
We need to accept these facts and move on. Stop giving trouble Hamilton fans!
Ayrton Senna was voted the greatest driver of all time by fellow racing drivers in 2009. At the time, Schumacher had 7 titles while Senna had 3.DownShift Ninja wrote: ↑08 Aug 2021, 06:42What so funny about this debate about LH44 not being as good or as talented about other drivers, is what happened in the Grill The Grid competition. 50 yrs from now if all those other drivers who are considered better than LH44 win less titles than him, then motorsports fans of the future will just say LH44 is the GOAT. Just the way they said it about Fangio till Schumacher passed his title count. So if LH44 wins 8 titles or more , history will record him as the GOAT until some one passes that.
When ppl are talking about Fangio there is hardly a mention of his bad races if any, they did the same for Schumacher not, will do the same for Hamilton. So all who want to continuously talk about the bad races Hamilton has had needs to ensure that the driver who they are a fan of has more titles than LH44. Since they may not be treated as kindly in the future as we now treat Sir Sterling Moss.
Who cares about what people in 50 years from now will think? We live in the present, we have the privilege of watching these drivers every week, therefore it makes perfect sense for us to debate and discuss them.DownShift Ninja wrote: ↑08 Aug 2021, 09:05See Kingshark I said 50 years from now. also I said the fans not racing drivers who lived within 3 decades of another driver competing. So did the dominant Mercedes loose a championship or a race to Button? Cause if you talking championship Mercedes was not around talking race then as I have said LH44 has weakness an is not infallible. Also I and other Hamilton fans can find ammunition to use against any driver currently or have been on the grid within the last 30 years.
Hamilton gets tagged with the GOAT name for 1 reason,Kingshark wrote: ↑08 Aug 2021, 08:33Ayrton Senna was voted the greatest driver of all time by fellow racing drivers in 2009. At the time, Schumacher had 7 titles while Senna had 3.DownShift Ninja wrote: ↑08 Aug 2021, 06:42What so funny about this debate about LH44 not being as good or as talented about other drivers, is what happened in the Grill The Grid competition. 50 yrs from now if all those other drivers who are considered better than LH44 win less titles than him, then motorsports fans of the future will just say LH44 is the GOAT. Just the way they said it about Fangio till Schumacher passed his title count. So if LH44 wins 8 titles or more , history will record him as the GOAT until some one passes that.
When ppl are talking about Fangio there is hardly a mention of his bad races if any, they did the same for Schumacher not, will do the same for Hamilton. So all who want to continuously talk about the bad races Hamilton has had needs to ensure that the driver who they are a fan of has more titles than LH44. Since they may not be treated as kindly in the future as we now treat Sir Sterling Moss.
If you think that everyone is just going to accept Hamilton as the GOAT because his numbers are larger than anyone else, then unfortunately you have an unpleasant surprise coming your way.
Dominant Mercedes, lost to Button, lost to Rosberg, failed to finish top 3 in the standings for five consecutive years. Plenty of ammunition available for those who are not Hamilton fans.
This is the forum now the sport and this place have become more popular after the DTS series went out. A lot of the fans here are going to be way more casual than others, won't understand the nuances of the sport and are just passionate and want to support their driver.
I'm not even referring to that incident. Turn 4 in Bahrain is a good example. If Max had waited half a lap, he would have been by with drs down the main strait. Imo his rush to overtake cost him that win.langedweil wrote: ↑08 Aug 2021, 05:35What you say means either one of two thing; Ves should have avoided the risk to defend on the outside (not to take a risk), or Ham took the risk deliberately whilst knowing the possible consequences in that corner (to take a risk) ..
IMHO, this example really has nothing to do with whatever you try to state.
If that can help you, my point was about the simple fact of using the verbs "attacking" and "defending" but You stick on that "vice versa" from what I am too far fromJust_a_fan wrote: ↑08 Aug 2021, 01:31So the bit about "vice versa" passed you by then?jurinius wrote: ↑07 Aug 2021, 19:38The funny thing here is can we turn this statement around like 'Lewis fans attacking Max, Max fans defending him and vice versa'.Just_a_fan wrote: ↑07 Aug 2021, 16:55
... Max fans attacking Lewis, Lewis fans defending him and vice versa. ...
Who is defending and who is attacking, it depends of many factors
The new Discovery Channel show about "Alonso being a tactical altruist hero" is what I respect the most in this thread. I wonder how many episodes of the show we will have this season. Anyway it is admirable even Ocon is a believer, why don't we.
Really, my post was about as neutral as it was possible to be and you still found a made up thing to argue. That's great. But perhaps it's time to read and understand rather than skim and react.
And yet you state the same ..flmkane wrote: ↑08 Aug 2021, 06:49Logical fallacy. There were more than two possibilities.langedweil wrote: ↑08 Aug 2021, 05:35What you say means either one of two thing; Ves should have avoided the risk to defend on the outside (not to take a risk), or Ham took the risk deliberately whilst knowing the possible consequences in that corner (to take a risk) ..
IMHO, this example really has nothing to do with whatever you try to state.
Ok, well I guess I was lead by the question you were answering to.dans79 wrote: ↑08 Aug 2021, 13:33I'm not even referring to that incident. Turn 4 in Bahrain is a good example. If Max had waited half a lap, he would have been by with drs down the main strait. Imo his rush to overtake cost him that win.langedweil wrote: ↑08 Aug 2021, 05:35What you say means either one of two thing; Ves should have avoided the risk to defend on the outside (not to take a risk), or Ham took the risk deliberately whilst knowing the possible consequences in that corner (to take a risk) ..
IMHO, this example really has nothing to do with whatever you try to state.
.. it just shows that statistics don’t show the whole picture.NathanOlder wrote: ↑08 Aug 2021, 11:32
in the 1 way that no one can argue with (statistics) Lewis is the GOAT. Everything else is an opinion.
I think it was Max's small mistake later on that lap that cost him another go. he run deep in to turn 13 I think it was then lost the chance and then the tyres were gone.langedweil wrote: ↑08 Aug 2021, 15:59Ok, well I guess I was lead by the question you were answering to.dans79 wrote: ↑08 Aug 2021, 13:33I'm not even referring to that incident. Turn 4 in Bahrain is a good example. If Max had waited half a lap, he would have been by with drs down the main strait. Imo his rush to overtake cost him that win.langedweil wrote: ↑08 Aug 2021, 05:35
What you say means either one of two thing; Ves should have avoided the risk to defend on the outside (not to take a risk), or Ham took the risk deliberately whilst knowing the possible consequences in that corner (to take a risk) ..
IMHO, this example really has nothing to do with whatever you try to state.
Nevermind, the point remains basically the same.
As to your example of Bahrein, maybe you're right that patience would have helped. But knowing you're racing a 7x wdc, you also know there might be no more chances to followup. As we kinda saw, because after that he was not able anymore to get as close.