Front page thread: The 2022 Formula 1 rules explained

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Just_a_fan
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Re: Front page thread: The 2022 Formula 1 rules explained

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BassVirolla wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:36 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:41 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:16 pm


0 << 25 though :lol: :lol: :lol:

Truth is I don't know how the FIA would rule here. I imagine they'd come down on the side of defining a minimum radius means there needs to be a radius.
Thinking further on this, they define the minimum radius of the curve but not the arc length (unless I've missed that). So I can draw a curve of 25mm radius and use some short part of that curve to join two surfaces together, can't it? Thus I can have my two surfaces with a 25mm radius curve of length 2mm. That's quite a sharp junction that meets the minimum radius requirement. You're going to tell me I'm wrong, aren't you? I can see it coming. :lol:
It would fail at the tangency requirements (if I've understand rightly such rules :roll: ).
That's the problem I have. I don't understand what they mean by some of the terms. If one can't use a part of an arc that has a radius 25mm, then that would suggest that the horizontal parts of the floor and the vertical parts of the tunnel must all meet with an arc equal in length to a quarter of a circle of radius >25mm. That's going to make it all very swoopy and unable to set up vortices. Maybe that's what Brawn and his team want.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Front page thread: The 2022 Formula 1 rules explained

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SiLo wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:04 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:36 pm
The diffuser exit is rather narrow, 750mm wide compared to 1050mm on the 2017-21 cars, and the shape of the floor volume will prevent teams from expanding their diffusers laterally, as they do now, which would subvert the aerodynamic concept for the 2022 cars, and allows only for expansion in the vertical direction, with the diffuser exit between 200mm and 310mm tall.
I wonder if any will just use the full height as the diffuser and not use any little devices along the top rear edge of the diffuser. The diffuser exit height variation will presumably see some / all teams using extension flaps along the top rear edge rather than the full height of the allowed diffuser at the exit, much like they currently do. This will presumably increase diffuser extraction and thus improve downforce at the kink line.

Also, might there be benefit from running a convex diffuser roof instead of the now ubiquitous concave roof? The concave roof allows for more expansion earlier on and offsets the relatively low diffuser height. But with taller diffusers, might a traditional convex roof give better overall results? Are they allowed strakes in the diffuser area? If not, dealing with a step at the kink and concave roof as they use today might be tricky.
It's possible they wont use the full width to be able to shape some lateral expansion into it as well. Be very interested to see what they do here.
Is that necessarily helpful to them with the new rules? With the new diffuser being taller and interacting with a big beam wing that will, in effect extend the top surface of the diffuser, and link the diffuser to the rear wing more than now, is lateral expansion as useful? Also, the brake ducts have extensions that help to seal the edge of the diffuser and presumably would have to be sacrificed for lateral expansion.

Image

Note that the launch show car had a slotted beam wing as allowed by the rules (two closed sections are allowed):

Image

I would have thought tying the flow from the diffuser and the beam wing together would be their big focus. It has the benefit of not having to worry about the wake of the tyre - indeed the design aims to pull the wake inwards and lift it all upwards, replacing "dirty" air with "clean" air from the sides of the car.
Last edited by Just_a_fan on Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
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Re: Front page thread: The 2022 Formula 1 rules explained

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The next obvious question is that of rake. Could a low rake car be more effective or a high rake car be more effective?

Adding rake helps to move the front wing closer to the ground, so that's a worthwhile benefit. Maybe if the rear doesn't care so much about rake, the teams will all go as high rake as they can just so that front wing is closer to the ground.

That's going to be an interesting comparison come testing / first race.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Re: Front page thread: The 2022 Formula 1 rules explained

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Fabulous explanation of how the new rules work.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

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Re: Front page thread: The 2022 Formula 1 rules explained

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:41 pm
Thinking further on this, they define the minimum radius of the curve but not the arc length (unless I've missed that). So I can draw a curve of 25mm radius and use some short part of that curve to join two surfaces together, can't it? Thus I can have my two surfaces with a 25mm radius curve of length 2mm. That's quite a sharp junction that meets the minimum radius requirement. You're going to tell me I'm wrong, aren't you? I can see it coming. :lol:
Two words. "Tangent continuous"
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Re: Front page thread: The 2022 Formula 1 rules explained

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SiLo wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:04 pm
It's possible they wont use the full width to be able to shape some lateral expansion into it as well. Be very interested to see what they do here.
The wall thickness at the trailing edge of the diffuser is really thin, not much scope to expand laterally.
Image
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Front page thread: The 2022 Formula 1 rules explained

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jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:47 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:41 pm
Thinking further on this, they define the minimum radius of the curve but not the arc length (unless I've missed that). So I can draw a curve of 25mm radius and use some short part of that curve to join two surfaces together, can't it? Thus I can have my two surfaces with a 25mm radius curve of length 2mm. That's quite a sharp junction that meets the minimum radius requirement. You're going to tell me I'm wrong, aren't you? I can see it coming. :lol:
Two words. "Tangent continuous"
What does that actually mean? The cars are allowed to have straight surfaces - the rules require it in places after all. If the floor has to be a flat surface parallel to the reference plane, and the tunnel sides have to be flat surfaces normal to the reference plane, why is a curve that joins them and is 25mm long ok but one that's 10mm long not ok? It's the same tangent.

If the surfaces must always have a tangent then a flat surface is forbidden.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Re: Front page thread: The 2022 Formula 1 rules explained

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:00 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:47 pm
Two words. "Tangent continuous"
What does that actually mean? The cars are allowed to have straight surfaces - the rules require it in places after all. If the floor has to be a flat surface parallel to the reference plane, and the tunnel sides have to be flat surfaces normal to the reference plane, why is a curve that joins them and is 25mm long ok but one that's 10mm long not ok? It's the same tangent.

If the surfaces must always have a tangent then a flat surface is forbidden.
It basically means the curve can change curvature, but there can't be an abrupt stop of curving... Say you have two lines at 90degrees with a radius at the corner - like the diffuser endfence above. If you draw a line tangent to the radius it would have the same orientation as the vertical or horizontal at the point where the radius intersects either line.

I'm not sure if that helps or confuses... the FIA definition of tangent continuous includes the words tangent continuous :lol: :lol: :lol:
3.1.6 Tangency Continuity
Tangency Continuity at a given point of a curve or at a given point of a surface, is satisfied if the value of the tangent is continuous.
Tangency Continuity at intersections between two curves or two surfaces, is satisfied if the two curves or two surfaces at the intersection are tangent to one another and also have their normal coincident with each other.
Where two adjacent surfaces are not tangent continuous but could be made so by applying a fillet radius of no more than 1mm along their boundary, these surfaces will be considered tangent continuous at this boundary whether or not the fillet radius is applied, as long as such a fillet radius is permitted according to the relevant article.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Front page thread: The 2022 Formula 1 rules explained

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jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:37 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:00 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:47 pm
Two words. "Tangent continuous"
What does that actually mean? The cars are allowed to have straight surfaces - the rules require it in places after all. If the floor has to be a flat surface parallel to the reference plane, and the tunnel sides have to be flat surfaces normal to the reference plane, why is a curve that joins them and is 25mm long ok but one that's 10mm long not ok? It's the same tangent.

If the surfaces must always have a tangent then a flat surface is forbidden.
It basically means the curve can change curvature, but there can't be an abrupt stop of curving... Say you have two lines at 90degrees with a radius at the corner - like the diffuser endfence above. If you draw a line tangent to the radius it would have the same orientation as the vertical or horizontal at the point where the radius intersects either line.

I'm not sure if that helps or confuses... the FIA definition of tangent continuous includes the words tangent continuous :lol: :lol: :lol:
3.1.6 Tangency Continuity
Tangency Continuity at a given point of a curve or at a given point of a surface, is satisfied if the value of the tangent is continuous.
Tangency Continuity at intersections between two curves or two surfaces, is satisfied if the two curves or two surfaces at the intersection are tangent to one another and also have their normal coincident with each other.
Where two adjacent surfaces are not tangent continuous but could be made so by applying a fillet radius of no more than 1mm along their boundary, these surfaces will be considered tangent continuous at this boundary whether or not the fillet radius is applied, as long as such a fillet radius is permitted according to the relevant article.
So, unless the fillet radius is allowed, any surfaces in the floor zone must have an arc joining them that is a quarter segment of a circle with radius >25mm. Any other way of joining 2 flat surfaces that are mutually normal with a curve will create an abrupt stop of the curve.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Re: Front page thread: The 2022 Formula 1 rules explained

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:42 pm
So, unless the fillet radius is allowed, any surfaces in the floor zone must have an arc joining them that is a quarter segment of a circle with radius >25mm. Any other way of joining 2 flat surfaces that are mutually normal with a curve will create an abrupt stop of the curve.
As I read it yes. The floor has to be tangent continuous with a radius at least 25mm applied. Except for a region below Z65 and a certain distance ahead of or behind the rear wheel centreline, and a 60mm radius sphere at a very particular point ahead of the rear tyre.
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Stu
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Re: Front page thread: The 2022 Formula 1 rules explained

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Not. A. Spec. Series.

In all seriousness, the aero rules are very constrained, the power unit rules are very constrained. To all intents and purposes we will now have a spec series where there are multiple manufacturers.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Front page thread: The 2022 Formula 1 rules explained

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jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:46 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:42 pm
So, unless the fillet radius is allowed, any surfaces in the floor zone must have an arc joining them that is a quarter segment of a circle with radius >25mm. Any other way of joining 2 flat surfaces that are mutually normal with a curve will create an abrupt stop of the curve.
As I read it yes. The floor has to be tangent continuous with a radius at least 25mm applied. Except for a region below Z65 and a certain distance ahead of or behind the rear wheel centreline, and a 60mm radius sphere at a very particular point ahead of the rear tyre.
It's all going to be very swoopy then. :lol:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Stu
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Re: Front page thread: The 2022 Formula 1 rules explained

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:13 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:46 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:42 pm
So, unless the fillet radius is allowed, any surfaces in the floor zone must have an arc joining them that is a quarter segment of a circle with radius >25mm. Any other way of joining 2 flat surfaces that are mutually normal with a curve will create an abrupt stop of the curve.
As I read it yes. The floor has to be tangent continuous with a radius at least 25mm applied. Except for a region below Z65 and a certain distance ahead of or behind the rear wheel centreline, and a 60mm radius sphere at a very particular point ahead of the rear tyre.
It's all going to be very swoopy then. :lol:
I think that swoopy is what they want, all of the renders have been swoopy…😂
…but then then there are elements of the ‘physical’ show car that look bloated, rather than swoopy.
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Re: Front page thread: The 2022 Formula 1 rules explained

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PART 2 - Front wing
The front wing of the 2022 cars is operationally fairly similar to the wings pioneered by Alfa Romeo and Alpha Tauri after the 2019 F1 rule change, but through regulation rather than innovation, with a lot of camber towards the middle of the wing with very little camber at the tips. There are some obvious differences, for example the wing now rises to join the nose directly rather than hanging underneath from pylons, to remove the Y250 vortex which is so influential in current car aerodynamic designs, and the larger delta shaped endplates which blend into the wing.
Image

The front wing is split into four boxes to delineate the regulations for each section. The front wing retains the rearwards sweep introduced in the 2017 rule change to make the cars look more “dynamic”, though the angle of sweep has increased from around 11° to about 21° - extra dynamic! To join to the nose the front wing has a small anhedral angle, or droop, of about 2.6° from centreline to tip (though there is a small dip allowed near the nose), where the wing is closest to the ground - the minimum height above being 100mm, 25mm higher than the current wings. The slight increase in height reduces the ground effect of the wing, reducing absolute downforce but also pitch sensitivity.
  • RV-FW-PROFILES Front Wing Reference Volume
  • RV-FW-EP Front Wing Reference Volume
  • RV-FW-TIP Front Wing Reference Volume
  • RV-FW-DP Front Wing Diveplane Reference Volume
  • RS-FWEP-BODY Front Wing Endplate Body Reference Surface
  • RS-FW-PROFILES Front Wing Profiles Reference Surface
  • RS-FW-DP Front Wing Diveplane Reference Surface
  • RS-FW-SECTION Front Wing Profiles Reference Section
The actual downforce producing elements of the wing must fit inside RV-FW-PROFILES (orange below). The number of separate wing elements is limited to a maximum of four, one fewer than 2019-21, which have to stack consecutively from lowest to highest with minimum and maximum separation between each of 5mm and 15mm respectively. Like the past few years of regulations the front wings have a number of geometry restrictions in the rules, like minimum convex curvature of the aerofoil profiles (50mm) and maximum tangents to the slope created across the span. For structural reasons, the foremost two aerofoil elements must be at least 25mm thick at their maximum point of thickness, though only inboard of Y300 (±300mm from ). The two foremost aerofoil elements must also be fixed relative to the nose, so that only the upper two (if using all four elements) elements are able to change angle to adjust downforce levels at the track, with flap adjustment handled in the same way as 2019-21 with a little fence allowed to “seal” the end of the flap. The inboard axis of rotation can be between 200mm to 400mm from , while the outboard rotation point must be between 825 and 850mm from .
Image

Like the floor there is a minimum planform area to which the wing must conform, the triangular(ish) shape of RS-FW-PROFILES (red below) must be hidden by the front wing. The front edge of RS-FW-PROFILES is slightly inset from RV-FW-PROFILES with a slightly smaller sweep angle. The outboard edge is then the same length as the lower edge of the minimum size requirement of the endplate (RS-FWEP-BODY, teal below).
Image

The front wing endplate must fit within RV-FW-EP (blue above) and must also be bigger than the delta shaped RS-FWEP-BODY when viewed from the side. Like the floor fences described above, the endplate is defined relative to a “virtual surface” which can be offset by ±6mm, or ±10mm over the leading 150mm of the endplate. The virtual surface cannot out or inwash flow by more than 10° from the car centreline at any point along its length - again to keep the car wake narrow for raceability. The endplate must then have a radius of at least 5mm applied to all edges to prevent punctures - this rule has existed for a long time - furthermore the whole endplate must be made of a prescribed laminate to prevent splintering so that if the worst does happen punctures are not caused by sharp carbon fibre shards.

After the endplate and wing profiles are fully defined the wing profiles have to be blended into the endplate inside RV-FW-TIP (grey above). The tip volume can still contain up to four elements, but these must have merged into one at the bottom of the endplate. The maximum slot gap separation from the profiles volume is still present, but the wing elements here cannot overlap by more than 30mm. The blend radius has to be bigger than a 20mm arc, preventing any sharp corners which could produce undesired vortices.

The last part of the front wing group is the diveplane. The diveplane will produce a bit of downforce but also sheds a vortex which runs along the outer face of the front tyre. While the maximum width of the front wing at the endplate is 1950mm, the diveplane volume (RV-FW-DP, green above) takes the width of the completed front wing to the full 2m width of the car. The diveplane is again quite tightly controlled, being defined from another “virtual surface”, the trailing edge of which must be at least 75mm above the leading edge. The diveplane must form a single curve (no inflection), and cannot have any radius of curvature less than 50mm. The diveplane outboard of the endplate must also cover RS-FW-DP (purple above) when viewed from above. Once the virtual surface is defined the actual diveplane has to be between 10mm and 12mm thick, with a radius of at least 5mm applied to the edge - to prevent punctures.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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Re: Front page thread: The 2022 Formula 1 rules explained

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What's the relation between the front wing and the nosecone?
The orange volume of RV-FW-PROFILES seem to protrude over the blue nosecone volume near its tip, so is it possible to a construct wing beginning "over" the nosecone, a bit like in the Theodore TY01?