Will F1 start retiring driver numbers?

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Big Tea
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Re: Will F1 start retiring driver numbers?

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Zynerji wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:45 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:22 pm
n_anirudh wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:01 pm
Jules bianchi...not jenson button
Hardly a great name of F1 though is he?
I mean, he's WDC...😒
Lets not go there as it may upset some, but, no not even close 'famous'. Which does not detract from him being a nice guy and potential great.
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Zynerji
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Re: Will F1 start retiring driver numbers?

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Big Tea wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:15 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:45 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:22 pm


Hardly a great name of F1 though is he?
I mean, he's WDC...😒
Lets not go there as it may upset some, but, no not even close 'famous'. Which does not detract from him being a nice guy and potential great.
I have personally met 2 young boys in the USA that were both named Jenson. And when I asked, the parents confirmed it was after Button.

To me, that makes him famous!

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Re: Will F1 start retiring driver numbers?

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Big Tea wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:22 pm
n_anirudh wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:01 pm
Jules bianchi...not jenson button
Hardly a great name of F1 though is he?
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Stu
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Re: Will F1 start retiring driver numbers?

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If they go into the realms of retiring numbers, when does the number selection start from? When they are 8 and start in karts?

You would also get the possibility that a driver will trademark a number (and then claim to own that number and any reference to it). You would soon end up with 3-digit numbers being a ‘thing’ - this is common in UK oval racing.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Will F1 start retiring driver numbers?

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Zynerji wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:20 am
Big Tea wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:15 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:45 pm


I mean, he's WDC...😒
Lets not go there as it may upset some, but, no not even close 'famous'. Which does not detract from him being a nice guy and potential great.
I have personally met 2 young boys in the USA that were both named Jenson. And when I asked, the parents confirmed it was after Button.

To me, that makes him famous!
I think he's talking about Jules Bianchi and you're talking about Jensen Button.
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Big Tea
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Re: Will F1 start retiring driver numbers?

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:39 am
Zynerji wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:20 am
Big Tea wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:15 pm


Lets not go there as it may upset some, but, no not even close 'famous'. Which does not detract from him being a nice guy and potential great.
I have personally met 2 young boys in the USA that were both named Jenson. And when I asked, the parents confirmed it was after Button.

To me, that makes him famous!
I think he's talking about Jules Bianchi and you're talking about Jensen Button.

Even Button was not 'one of the great drivers'. Yes he was a champion and a winner several times and a very nice guy (met him 3 times) but eve if numbers were retired it would not be for the ordinary champion, it would have to be reserved for the level of Schumacher, Senna, Hamilton etc.

Bianchi will hardly appear in the F1 records. If we start going there, we would have to add the likes of Bellof, Rindt, and about a dozen others.

I really would not like to see it. Imagine Mansell without red 5?
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NathanOlder
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Re: Will F1 start retiring driver numbers?

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Retiring 17 was just respect to Jules. i agree with that. If anyone is tragically killed in F1, they should retire the number out of respect. Hopefully it doesn't happen again so we don't need to do it. I think multiple championship winning drivers should maybe have the choice to retire the number. Say 3 titles or more and you can but I feel most drivers won't want to retire their number. If upcoming young drivers want to run the 44 or 33 in future years, I'm sure Lewis and Max would be proud to see it. Considering its only been 7 years of number choices, I would imagine the young drivers coming through to single seaters now would probably be many of them that ran a 44 in karting etc. So many young drivers probably wish to use numbers like that.

I bet there are hundreds of teenage karters in the Netherlands than use the 33 on their kart. If they arrive in F1 they will want to use the 33 and I'm sure Max will be happy to see it after he has gone.
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Big Tea
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Re: Will F1 start retiring driver numbers?

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NathanOlder wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:33 pm
Retiring 17 was just respect to Jules. i agree with that. If anyone is tragically killed in F1, they should retire the number out of respect. Hopefully it doesn't happen again so we don't need to do it. I think multiple championship winning drivers should maybe have the choice to retire the number. Say 3 titles or more and you can but I feel most drivers won't want to retire their number. If upcoming young drivers want to run the 44 or 33 in future years, I'm sure Lewis and Max would be proud to see it. Considering its only been 7 years of number choices, I would imagine the young drivers coming through to single seaters now would probably be many of them that ran a 44 in karting etc. So many young drivers probably wish to use numbers like that.

I bet there are hundreds of teenage karters in the Netherlands than use the 33 on their kart. If they arrive in F1 they will want to use the 33 and I'm sure Max will be happy to see it after he has gone.
Have they officially retired it? I did not know. Which in fact proves the adage 'out of sight out of mind'.
Surely it would be better to keep the number in use and remind his fans of him.

I know it is often done in US sport, but I really think it a pointless gesture which removes all memories of anyone who had the number.
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Oakstreet
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Re: Will F1 start retiring driver numbers?

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F2 retired #19 in honour of Hubert. What I personally find interesting, is that the #19 was just appointed to the team (arden) based on their position in the previous year (car numbers 18 & 19). In fact, 18&19 are missing both this year as they are paired. #19 was used by Massa in F1 and is now available - probably no-one will pick it the coming years out of respect.

MattWellsyWells
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Re: Will F1 start retiring driver numbers?

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The thing is, in American Sports a team might retire a number in tribute to a player but it is still available to other players on other teams. So, certain F1 teams might choose to "retire" numbers but I don't think numbers can be retired from F1 altogether as there are a limited number of them realistically. Fair enough retiring 17 but that is hopefully an extremely rare occurrence.

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Big Tea
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Re: Will F1 start retiring driver numbers?

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Maybe Hamilton should be allowed to use 100?
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Will F1 start retiring driver numbers?

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Oakstreet wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:47 pm
F2 retired #19 in honour of Hubert. What I personally find interesting, is that the #19 was just appointed to the team (arden) based on their position in the previous year (car numbers 18 & 19). In fact, 18&19 are missing both this year as they are paired. #19 was used by Massa in F1 and is now available - probably no-one will pick it the coming years out of respect.
Driver-selected numbers are a new thing in F1. There have been several systems over the years:
  • 1950–1973 Numbers allocated by event organisers. Number system and method of allocation different for each event.

    1973 Permanent numbers trialed in second half of season, roughly based on Constructor standings.

    1974–1995 Permanent team numbers were fully implemented, initially based on the 1973 World Constructors' Championship placings. No. 1 was allocated to the World Drivers' Champion, and the only way numbers moved about was through the changing of the team for whom the World Champion drove for, or with a reallocation of spare numbers.

    1996–2013 Team numbers ordered by World Constructors' Championship position of the previous season, with No. 1 still going to the World Drivers' Champion.

    2014–present Drivers allowed to choose their own, permanent numbers from 0 through 99 except 1. Only the World Drivers' Champion is allowed to use No. 1 at their discretion, though they are not required to do so. In allocating out the numbers, drivers with a higher Championship position in the previous season are given higher preference.
Retiring driver numbers now would seem silly when so many drivers have used a given number over the years. Vettel's #5, for example, has famously been used by Mansell but also by Piquet, Lauda, Mario Andretti, Emerson FIttipaldi and then drivers such as Peterson, Reutemann, Daly, Laffite, Patrese, Brundell, and a good number of others.
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Jolle
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Re: Will F1 start retiring driver numbers?

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Of course, F1 already retired one number: 17.
They choose not to retire other numbers yet, also because (I think) due to the relative recent introduction of fixed numbers for drivers, the few big names that left the sport weren’t associated with their numbers yet ( like Button, Rosberg and Alonso). Hamilton is one of few of the older generation that is closely associated with his number and I expect with his retirement they will retire #44 as well.
In MotoGP this is done for years now. So from memory, not only the numbers of fatalities are retired (like 58) but also 65, 34, 69 and probably soon 46 and in the future 93.

BlueCheetah66
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Re: Will F1 start retiring driver numbers?

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I doubt F1 would retire numbers of champions but rather drivers would just avoid the numbers due to it being related to other drivers.

It will be interesting to see how quickly the number 7 will be taken once Kimi leaves as that seems like an in demand number

Just_a_fan
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Re: Will F1 start retiring driver numbers?

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Jolle wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:10 pm
Of course, F1 already retired one number: 17.
They choose not to retire other numbers yet, also because (I think) due to the relative recent introduction of fixed numbers for drivers, the few big names that left the sport weren’t associated with their numbers yet ( like Button, Rosberg and Alonso). Hamilton is one of few of the older generation that is closely associated with his number and I expect with his retirement they will retire #44 as well.
In MotoGP this is done for years now. So from memory, not only the numbers of fatalities are retired (like 58) but also 65, 34, 69 and probably soon 46 and in the future 93.
I think retiring a number when an active driver dies is one thing, although having said that you'd have had to retire 1, 8, 12, 19, 27 just for Senna (although G Villeneuve used 12 and 27 too, of course). Ratzenberger died with 32 on his car. Go back through the records and you find that a good number of numbers would be retired because they were used by a driver that dies whilst still actively competing.

Perhaps saying "we'll retire a driver's number from 2014 onwards if they die" would be "a nice thing to do", although my own view is that it's fairly meaningless. It's a reaction to the thankfully rare occurrence of death in motorsport these days, nothing more. We make a big thing of it because it is so unusual. It is shocking. But decisions based on emotional responses are often poor decisions.
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