2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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That, or the bendy wing allows Lewis to run with higher downforce without losing on the straights and amaze and surprise, be faster in corners and have better tire life.

Lewis and Max were both gunning for fastest lap in the third stint and whilst Lewis had the qualy gap here, Max set the fastest lap, twice over. Lewis tried twice as well (3 slow laps, 1 fast). F1bythenumbers has collected all the data and made nice graphics.
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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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Sieper wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:15 pm
That, or the bendy wing allows Lewis to run with higher downforce without losing on the straights and amaze and surprise, be faster in corners and have better tire life.

Lewis and Max were both gunning for fastest lap in the third stint and whilst Lewis had the qualy gap here, Max set the fastest lap, twice over. Lewis tried twice as well (3 slow laps, 1 fast). F1bythenumbers has collected all the data and made nice graphics.

Hmm I thought Horner said the difference on straights was immaterial, and they both had the same wings? What about the reported news that the wing passed flex tests that weekend?

I think Max was using a lot more kerbs to find the time, hence wing damage. Lewis suggested he didn’t use the kerbs so much, to protect his car from damage and failure. Haven’t seen the onboards but That makes sense to me.

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Mogster
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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I did start to wonder if they’d both pit for softs and have a second qualy 3. It would have been a massive risk for Merc though.

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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Mogster wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:33 pm
I did start to wonder if they’d both pit for softs and have a second qualy 3. It would have been a massive risk for Merc though.
Especially with the tyre risk hanging over them with Valterri’s experience. The win was too critical risk taking to the track limits like max was likely doing

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:23 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:06 am
Looking back at qualifying, why did horner say "Lewis made ALL of his time in turns 6 and 7 " ?? Turns 6 and 7 are in the middle sector. When you look at the best sector times from Q3 it looked like this

Lewis S1-26.450 --- S2-26.922 --- S3-27.455
Max S1-26.554 --- S2-27.179 --- S3-27.681

So Lewis was faster in all 3 sectors, by S1-0.104 --- S2-0.257 --- S3-0.226

So why does Horner say this rubbish ?

https://www.skysports.com/f1/live-blog/ ... eblog-body
Probably because he’s used to seeing the RB shine in corners with all its imperial downforce, the strengths of the car that low res thinking fans meant that Verstappen was phenomenally faster than other drivers because he shined in corners.

If you give other top drivers good downforce for corners, they will fly around the corners *shock horror* :lol:

Horner seemed to be really amazed with Lewis, quite weird. In principle, he shouldn’t praise his drivers rival that much IMO. I can’t tell if he’s honest enough for that :? or just genuinely struggling to hide his amazement.

https://c.tenor.com/rOn2DGJjzr0AAAAC/a ... e-jake.gif
In the Q3 onboards the extra speed Lewis had vs Max in turns 4567 was all about the line and the throttle application. I think Max gave away about 2 or 3 tenths there, he was a bit anxious on the throttle where he could have pushed much much wider to the amount Lewis was. I thought it was strange because it's usually Max and his RedBull taking it more over the curbs.
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:34 pm
Mogster wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:33 pm
I did start to wonder if they’d both pit for softs and have a second qualy 3. It would have been a massive risk for Merc though.
Especially with the tyre risk hanging over them with Valterri’s experience. The win was too critical risk taking to the track limits like max was likely doing
Mercedes also told Hamilton they did not have fresh softs for him, which made it a non-option for them.

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:32 pm
Sieper wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:15 pm
That, or the bendy wing allows Lewis to run with higher downforce without losing on the straights and amaze and surprise, be faster in corners and have better tire life.

Lewis and Max were both gunning for fastest lap in the third stint and whilst Lewis had the qualy gap here, Max set the fastest lap, twice over. Lewis tried twice as well (3 slow laps, 1 fast). F1bythenumbers has collected all the data and made nice graphics.

Hmm I thought Horner said the difference on straights was immaterial, and they both had the same wings? What about the reported news that the wing passed flex tests that weekend?

I think Max was using a lot more kerbs to find the time, hence wing damage. Lewis suggested he didn’t use the kerbs so much, to protect his car from damage and failure. Haven’t seen the onboards but That makes sense to me.
It would make sense to you. But then again, you haven’t the slightest prove, not even watched onboards so it is Just a thought. Did they have the same wing, Max has a Mercedes wing? The passing or none passing of tests has not been published. The made a point of that, it was just base line data gathering. All we know is that the wings did not have to pass any new test this weekend.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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Sieper wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:43 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:32 pm
Sieper wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:15 pm
That, or the bendy wing allows Lewis to run with higher downforce without losing on the straights and amaze and surprise, be faster in corners and have better tire life.

Lewis and Max were both gunning for fastest lap in the third stint and whilst Lewis had the qualy gap here, Max set the fastest lap, twice over. Lewis tried twice as well (3 slow laps, 1 fast). F1bythenumbers has collected all the data and made nice graphics.

Hmm I thought Horner said the difference on straights was immaterial, and they both had the same wings? What about the reported news that the wing passed flex tests that weekend?

I think Max was using a lot more kerbs to find the time, hence wing damage. Lewis suggested he didn’t use the kerbs so much, to protect his car from damage and failure. Haven’t seen the onboards but That makes sense to me.
It would make sense to you. But then again, you haven’t the slightest prove, not even watched onboards so it is Just a thought. Did they have the same wing, Max has a Mercedes wing? The passing or none passing of tests has not been published. The made a point of that, it was just base line data gathering. All we know is that the wings did not have to pass any new test this weekend.
Do you? Or Horner? 🤔

Same downforce levels wing, no? How else did max damage his wing? We saw it with Pierre and the kerbs killed several tyres.
Last edited by AeroDynamic on Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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Are there any videos of the bendy wing bending? Or is it just that Red Bull say it bends?

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:47 pm
Sieper wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:43 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:32 pm



Hmm I thought Horner said the difference on straights was immaterial, and they both had the same wings? What about the reported news that the wing passed flex tests that weekend?

I think Max was using a lot more kerbs to find the time, hence wing damage. Lewis suggested he didn’t use the kerbs so much, to protect his car from damage and failure. Haven’t seen the onboards but That makes sense to me.
It would make sense to you. But then again, you haven’t the slightest prove, not even watched onboards so it is Just a thought. Did they have the same wing, Max has a Mercedes wing? The passing or none passing of tests has not been published. The made a point of that, it was just base line data gathering. All we know is that the wings did not have to pass any new test this weekend.
Do you? Or Horner? 🤔

How else did max damage his wing? We saw it with Pierre and the kerbs killed several tyres.
I did see the damage on his front left wing. There was a small chip on the front side. It was there very early in the race already. I personally think it happened right away when he had to make room for Alonso. There was a small moment when he came on track again.

Could also happen on the kerbs, for sure max was on there at least one time on the race (shown in the live feed) and with high rake the FW is closer to the ground so there is more danger.

But I am not the one selling the Lewis is smart and stays of the kerbs and that is the only reason Max who took the risk lap after lap and only that way he could keep up without a shred of proof.
Last edited by Sieper on Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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siskue2005
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:50 pm
Are there any videos of the bendy wing bending? Or is it just that Red Bull say it bends?
No videos no photos
Just Horner talking about straight line speed and scratch marks

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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I haven’t seen footage of this race yet, but there are multiple threads on this very forum showing the gap opening f.e. In Brazil. The problem with that is that it is not easy to film. With the bendy wing from RBR early this season it was easy to see from the T cam.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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Sieper wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:57 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:47 pm
Sieper wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:43 pm


It would make sense to you. But then again, you haven’t the slightest prove, not even watched onboards so it is Just a thought. Did they have the same wing, Max has a Mercedes wing? The passing or none passing of tests has not been published. The made a point of that, it was just base line data gathering. All we know is that the wings did not have to pass any new test this weekend.
Do you? Or Horner? 🤔

How else did max damage his wing? We saw it with Pierre and the kerbs killed several tyres.
I did see the damage on his front left wing. There was a small chip on the front side. It was there very early in the race already. I personally think it happened right away when he had to make room for Alonso. There was a small moment when he came on track again.

Could also happen on the kerbs, for sure max was on there at least one time on the race (shown in the live feed) and with high rake the FW is closer to the ground so there is more danger.

But I am not the one selling the Lewis is smart and stays of the kerbs and that is the only reason dumb Max who took the risk lap after lap and only that way he could keep up without a shred of proof.
Sierper, there was no intention behind my comments to say Max was being dumb. Only that Max took powerful FL and Lewis’ hands may have been tied in the situation, as he was being risk adverse about the kerbs. Max’s damage suggests to me he was using more track to find the time, that’s all.

If you keep assuming everyone has an agenda, you will simply read into things that aren’t there. Like looking at ghosts :wink:

I don’t think his wing damaged from Alonso, I don’t think they made contact and I think only his rear right wheel went onto the Astroturf. I don’t recall sparks there? I also think max suggests it happened a few laps in, no? His pace was good in the first laps, I’m sure I remember his pace changing a bit after that.
Last edited by AeroDynamic on Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:50 pm
Are there any videos of the bendy wing bending? Or is it just that Red Bull say it bends?
Just redbull. There is currently nothing to show the wing bending. RedBull have been pointing at many things, they had folders of info apparently on the Mercedes rear wing! Maybe they should have been spending that time on their own car.

As for the fastest lap, If Max had a faster car, why didn't he catch Lewis. The gap went from 4 up to 10 seconds during the race. It did seem like Lewis was just controlling the gap. I was expecting a last lap go at the fastest lap up until Max pitted, then it was obvious Lewis wouldn't get it. If Lewis took the fastest lap with more than 2 laps to go, RedBull definitely pit Max for soft tyres. If RedBull were convinced Max was faster than Lewis then they wouldnt have stopped for softs. The fact they did, showed that they risked a pitstop to make sure Max took it and covered Lewis and the rest off. In the end it didn't matter as Lewis didn't have the final 3-4 laps anyway as the VSC stopped him even trying. But I don't think that 1 point will matter at the end, it will come down to who wins the next 2 races, Lewis needs 2, Max needs 1.
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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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From Max:
yeah, I think it happened [front wing damage] on lap 1 and lap 3 or something, in turn uh, 14.. and 15? By just trying to follow I just understeered a bit wide, and uh, these uh, extra row of kerbs, they are quite aggressive and uh, yeah, I saw a few sparks flying, so, I think it did damage a little bit the front wing. Uh, But yeah it just gives you a tiny bit more under steer but it was not enough damage to really, let’s say impact the pace difference between the two of us.
As I said, I don’t think his wing damage impacted his pace so much, he just used more track, and Lewis was being risk adverse. The qualifying pace difference doesn’t disappear like that. It makes sense because ultimately Lewis was managing the pace and Max wasn’t able to close the gap.