2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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zibby43
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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The only 2 circuits Merc really faltered at in the second half are Zandvoort and COTA.

In Zandvoort, they explained that their car really struggled with the banking.

Whereas, in Austin, the bumps of the circuit forced setup compromises. Merc have to run their suspension very stiff.

Bill
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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20 hp cant give you extra 20km/h worth of top speed you will need at more like 200hp merc top speed is unexplaineable but they still have realiability issues and ers that run out ealier on straight. brazil being a short track helped them .mclaren with same pu have at time being quicker than them lewis coudnt depose lando in russia

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godlameroso
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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SiLo wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:31 am
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:05 pm
At corner speeds above 140kmh the RB16B is untouchable. Losail has many such proper corners, you gain so much on not understeering on entry because it lets you use less steering lock on exit, this leads to less wheelspin and more rear tire preservation. The downforce advantage on the RBR means the rear axle isn't going to wear much faster than the front. Furthermore it looks like the hardest tires will be on offer. From what I can see the medium C2 can probably do 20 laps with a decrease in appreciable performance around lap 16. The hard can likely go close to half race distance but won't be nice to drive on, maybe a little too hard.

It's likely to be another Barcelona type scenario, if Verstappen wants to try the one stop he should use the hard tire, because the medium just won't make it. At 57 laps, 17, 20, 20 will be the standard strategy as the undercut is effective if timed properly.
Can you tell me where you get your tyre info from please?

Not sure where you got the idea that RB are faster in corners over 140kph, but so far I haven’t seen anything that supports that argument. In fact at high downforce high speed tracks such as Hungary, Barcelona, Portimao and Turkey, Mercedes looked superior. The only outlier was Zandvoort, which has a higher amount of slow corners.

Lo sail looks very much like a good track for Mercedes.
Mexico.
Saishū kōnā

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godlameroso
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:13 am
The only 2 circuits Merc really faltered at in the second half are Zandvoort and COTA.

In Zandvoort, they explained that their car really struggled with the banking.

Whereas, in Austin, the bumps of the circuit forced setup compromises. Merc have to run their suspension very stiff.
So it was the bumps in France?
Saishū kōnā

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SiLo
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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godlameroso wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:08 pm
SiLo wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:31 am
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:05 pm
At corner speeds above 140kmh the RB16B is untouchable. Losail has many such proper corners, you gain so much on not understeering on entry because it lets you use less steering lock on exit, this leads to less wheelspin and more rear tire preservation. The downforce advantage on the RBR means the rear axle isn't going to wear much faster than the front. Furthermore it looks like the hardest tires will be on offer. From what I can see the medium C2 can probably do 20 laps with a decrease in appreciable performance around lap 16. The hard can likely go close to half race distance but won't be nice to drive on, maybe a little too hard.

It's likely to be another Barcelona type scenario, if Verstappen wants to try the one stop he should use the hard tire, because the medium just won't make it. At 57 laps, 17, 20, 20 will be the standard strategy as the undercut is effective if timed properly.
Can you tell me where you get your tyre info from please?

Not sure where you got the idea that RB are faster in corners over 140kph, but so far I haven’t seen anything that supports that argument. In fact at high downforce high speed tracks such as Hungary, Barcelona, Portimao and Turkey, Mercedes looked superior. The only outlier was Zandvoort, which has a higher amount of slow corners.

Lo sail looks very much like a good track for Mercedes.
Mexico.
Mexico what? You can't use tyre life from an entirely different circuit and conditions to predict it for a new track that has never been raced on before surely?
Felipe Baby!

Bill_Kar
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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godlameroso wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:09 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:13 am
The only 2 circuits Merc really faltered at in the second half are Zandvoort and COTA.

In Zandvoort, they explained that their car really struggled with the banking.

Whereas, in Austin, the bumps of the circuit forced setup compromises. Merc have to run their suspension very stiff.
So it was the bumps in France?
Note that I don't agree necessarily, but he said in the second half of the season. That is, after the updates of Mercedes and the tyres' construction change in GB.

djones
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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Bill wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:02 am
20 hp cant give you extra 20km/h worth of top speed you will need at more like 200hp merc top speed is unexplaineable but they still have realiability issues and ers that run out ealier on straight. brazil being a short track helped them .mclaren with same pu have at time being quicker than them lewis coudnt depose lando in russia
Why do people keep saying it is somehow magical they had a 20 kph advantage (it wasn't even that when you look at the full data in clean air).

1. They had a fresh engine
2. That fresh engine could be turned up as only has to do 4 races
3. They were running less downforce than Redbull
4. They had a great setup that allowed for good traction in early acceleration zones

It really is that simple.

zibby43
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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godlameroso wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:09 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:13 am
The only 2 circuits Merc really faltered at in the second half are Zandvoort and COTA.

In Zandvoort, they explained that their car really struggled with the banking.

Whereas, in Austin, the bumps of the circuit forced setup compromises. Merc have to run their suspension very stiff.
So it was the bumps in France?
Was France after the summer break?

I’d hardly call that race a falter, either.

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SiLo
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:38 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:09 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:13 am
The only 2 circuits Merc really faltered at in the second half are Zandvoort and COTA.

In Zandvoort, they explained that their car really struggled with the banking.

Whereas, in Austin, the bumps of the circuit forced setup compromises. Merc have to run their suspension very stiff.
So it was the bumps in France?
Was France after the summer break?

I’d hardly call that race a falter, either.
I'd say either team could have won that race, it was all strategy.
Felipe Baby!

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jumpingfish
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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SiLo
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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Only one corner lower than 4th gear! That's an incredibly fast track.
Felipe Baby!

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dans79
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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SiLo wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:51 pm
Only one corner lower than 4th gear! That's an incredibly fast track.
yep, and a lot of the cornering speeds are drastically different than the video game laps we have seen so far.
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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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Albon spoke about his experience driving it on the sim. He said it’s very hard to know where you are because the track is so flat, so open, there’s few markers to judge where the track ends and begins basically. So it’s gonna be a challenge to know if you’re hitting the apex’s where you want and the lines. Practice is paramount.

I think it probably will come to red bull. They’re still the best car around corners, and the straight isn’t all that long, and there’s only one.

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siskue2005
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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SiLo wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:31 am
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:05 pm
At corner speeds above 140kmh the RB16B is untouchable. Losail has many such proper corners, you gain so much on not understeering on entry because it lets you use less steering lock on exit, this leads to less wheelspin and more rear tire preservation. The downforce advantage on the RBR means the rear axle isn't going to wear much faster than the front. Furthermore it looks like the hardest tires will be on offer. From what I can see the medium C2 can probably do 20 laps with a decrease in appreciable performance around lap 16. The hard can likely go close to half race distance but won't be nice to drive on, maybe a little too hard.

It's likely to be another Barcelona type scenario, if Verstappen wants to try the one stop he should use the hard tire, because the medium just won't make it. At 57 laps, 17, 20, 20 will be the standard strategy as the undercut is effective if timed properly.
Can you tell me where you get your tyre info from please?

Not sure where you got the idea that RB are faster in corners over 140kph, but so far I haven’t seen anything that supports that argument. In fact at high downforce high speed tracks such as Hungary, Barcelona, Portimao and Turkey, Mercedes looked superior. The only outlier was Zandvoort, which has a higher amount of slow corners.

Lo sail looks very much like a good track for Mercedes.
I am also interested in knowing where those claims are coming from.

Anything from a video game is not good or not true

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siskue2005
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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godlameroso wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:51 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:10 pm
SiLo wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:31 am


Can you tell me where you get your tyre info from please?

Not sure where you got the idea that RB are faster in corners over 140kph, but so far I haven’t seen anything that supports that argument. In fact at high downforce high speed tracks such as Hungary, Barcelona, Portimao and Turkey, Mercedes looked superior. The only outlier was Zandvoort, which has a higher amount of slow corners.

Lo sail looks very much like a good track for Mercedes.
I am also interested in knowing where those claims are coming from.

Anything from a video game is not good or not true
Telemetry I have posted it several times already, you should have just said I'm a bad person to begin with.
I might have missed the telemetry, please post it again.
Is it from a past f1 race?