2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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Mchamilton
Mchamilton
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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siskue2005 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:10 pm
SiLo wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:31 am
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:05 pm
At corner speeds above 140kmh the RB16B is untouchable. Losail has many such proper corners, you gain so much on not understeering on entry because it lets you use less steering lock on exit, this leads to less wheelspin and more rear tire preservation. The downforce advantage on the RBR means the rear axle isn't going to wear much faster than the front. Furthermore it looks like the hardest tires will be on offer. From what I can see the medium C2 can probably do 20 laps with a decrease in appreciable performance around lap 16. The hard can likely go close to half race distance but won't be nice to drive on, maybe a little too hard.

It's likely to be another Barcelona type scenario, if Verstappen wants to try the one stop he should use the hard tire, because the medium just won't make it. At 57 laps, 17, 20, 20 will be the standard strategy as the undercut is effective if timed properly.
Can you tell me where you get your tyre info from please?

Not sure where you got the idea that RB are faster in corners over 140kph, but so far I haven’t seen anything that supports that argument. In fact at high downforce high speed tracks such as Hungary, Barcelona, Portimao and Turkey, Mercedes looked superior. The only outlier was Zandvoort, which has a higher amount of slow corners.

Lo sail looks very much like a good track for Mercedes.
I am also interested in knowing where those claims are coming from.

Anything from a video game is not good or not true
Exactly this, looks like a hungary tyre circuit to me maybe a touch quicker. But look at the barn door mercedes had on at Brazil, red bulls wing was considerably shallower yet they were still rock bottom of the speed traps, and max was no where against lewis in sector 2 in qualifying. Barring any tyre troubles for Merc i expect them to be on pole and win here

mstar
mstar
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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Something about this ciccuit tells me this maybe swing in Redbulls favour. They have a wider set-up window where the car is spot on. Merc is little more tempermental to get the sweet spot for set-up. I think RB and merc be close but i think the track will be all down to if merc can stay close to (in laptime) in sector 2.

Tvetovnato
Tvetovnato
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Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:03 pm

Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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I think this will be a game of strategy. Tyre wear will probably be massive, which opens up for undercut and overcut possibilities. Might be a COTA race all over again, as long as neither team gets off to a really bad start setup wise.

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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SiLo wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:43 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:38 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:09 pm


So it was the bumps in France?
Was France after the summer break?

I’d hardly call that race a falter, either.
I'd say either team could have won that race, it was all strategy.
Agreed.

pb6797
pb6797
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:20 pm
SiLo wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:43 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:38 pm


Was France after the summer break?

I’d hardly call that race a falter, either.
I'd say either team could have won that race, it was all strategy.
Agreed.
If I remember correctly, was it France where Bottas flat spotted his tyres so Mercedes brought him in for an early pitstop, which spooked Red Bull into pitting and gave Max an almost inadvertent undercut on Hamilton?

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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pb6797 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:11 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:20 pm
SiLo wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:43 pm


I'd say either team could have won that race, it was all strategy.
Agreed.
If I remember correctly, was it France where Bottas flat spotted his tyres so Mercedes brought him in for an early pitstop, which spooked Red Bull into pitting and gave Max an almost inadvertent undercut on Hamilton?
I believe you’re correct. It turned out to be quite powerful, too.

Mansell89
Mansell89
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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Huge race this one. If Max won this it really would swing the momentum to him and knock a bit of wind out of Merc after last weeks high.

I feel of the remaining 3 tracks, this is more Red Bull than the others but hey, it’s been topsy turvy all year so who knows.

Think it will be nip and tuck again- high tension!!

CLKGTR
CLKGTR
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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FIA warns drivers about track limits in FIVE corners :o :lol:

A lot of deleted laptimes and more pressure in qualifying on drivers to avoid overdoing the exits in those corners.

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dans79
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Location: USA

Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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The track looks table top flat to me!



It also looks like turn 3 is a non corner, 4 & 5 will be a double apex corner, and 12 & 13 might also be a double apex corner.
183 103 103 7

LM10
LM10
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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dans79 wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:11 pm
The track looks table top flat to me!



It also looks like turn 3 is a non corner, 4 & 5 will be a double apex corner, and 12 & 13 might also be a double apex corner.
From this it looks more like a RedBull track to me. But we'll find out soon.

Track position is going to be crucial it seems.

djones
djones
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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With the fresh engine, Mercedes will be able to run more downforce (than they otherwise would) and still be fast on the straights.

With that in mind, I think this and all the remaining races will be Merceded tracks.

The most interesting thing I'm looking forward to seeing is to do Mercedes give Hamilton another fresh engine and just take the 5 places hit for the advantage it gives in return.

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214270
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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djones wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:49 pm
With the fresh engine, Mercedes will be able to run more downforce (than they otherwise would) and still be fast on the straights.

With that in mind, I think this and all the remaining races will be Merceded tracks.

The most interesting thing I'm looking forward to seeing is to do Mercedes give Hamilton another fresh engine and just take the 5 places hit for the advantage it gives in return.
I suspect that was considered and rejected because of negative press possibilities; it’s almost like you’re trying to ‘buy’ the championship by giving your protagonist two, 2-race only engines. Perfectly within the rules, but utterly ruthless and maybe a step too far.
Team ANTI-HYPE. Prove it, then I’ll anoint you.

flmkane
flmkane
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Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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214270 wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:29 pm
djones wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:49 pm
With the fresh engine, Mercedes will be able to run more downforce (than they otherwise would) and still be fast on the straights.

With that in mind, I think this and all the remaining races will be Merceded tracks.

The most interesting thing I'm looking forward to seeing is to do Mercedes give Hamilton another fresh engine and just take the 5 places hit for the advantage it gives in return.
I suspect that was considered and rejected because of negative press possibilities; it’s almost like you’re trying to ‘buy’ the championship by giving your protagonist two, 2-race only engines. Perfectly within the rules, but utterly ruthless and maybe a step too far.
Perhaps they'll only change the engine if they're sure of getting pole?

bonjon1979
bonjon1979
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Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:16 pm

Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

Post

214270 wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:29 pm
djones wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:49 pm
With the fresh engine, Mercedes will be able to run more downforce (than they otherwise would) and still be fast on the straights.

With that in mind, I think this and all the remaining races will be Merceded tracks.

The most interesting thing I'm looking forward to seeing is to do Mercedes give Hamilton another fresh engine and just take the 5 places hit for the advantage it gives in return.
I suspect that was considered and rejected because of negative press possibilities; it’s almost like you’re trying to ‘buy’ the championship by giving your protagonist two, 2-race only engines. Perfectly within the rules, but utterly ruthless and maybe a step too far.
I think if you look at the different teams budgets you’ll see every championship is bought to a certain extent!

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Stu
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Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:05 am
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: 2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

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bonjon1979 wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:18 pm
214270 wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:29 pm
djones wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:49 pm
With the fresh engine, Mercedes will be able to run more downforce (than they otherwise would) and still be fast on the straights.

With that in mind, I think this and all the remaining races will be Merceded tracks.

The most interesting thing I'm looking forward to seeing is to do Mercedes give Hamilton another fresh engine and just take the 5 places hit for the advantage it gives in return.
I suspect that was considered and rejected because of negative press possibilities; it’s almost like you’re trying to ‘buy’ the championship by giving your protagonist two, 2-race only engines. Perfectly within the rules, but utterly ruthless and maybe a step too far.
I think if you look at the different teams budgets you’ll see every championship is bought to a certain extent!
Very true! And this has been the same forever, barring a few surprise technical innovations…

What will be interesting is how it works next year with the budget cap in place. Will throwing ICE’s at a car in the tail-end of the season be an option. I know that there are teams that are considered ‘works’ teams, historically they have not paid for engines, that principle would totally subvert the budget cap.
‘Works’ team fighting for the championship decides to fit 6 ICE units, because ‘reasons’, for zero cost, customer team spending £15m on three ICE’s would see this cost double. The budget cap is meant to level the playing field…
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….