2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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Csmith1980
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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Alexf1 wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:24 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:16 pm
Alexf1 wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:08 pm


The decisions made by the RD in AD were as bad in the first lap as the last. So your single focus on the last lap happenings is quite telling on where and when you care about sporting fairness
The decisionin the first lap was by the stewards not the racing director. Masi can play a secondary role to point out an incident to the stewards if they haven't noticed it. Fortunately they did notice it and they took action and ordered Lewis to relinquish the advantaged gained by crossing the track.

The conducting of the saftey car however, is Masi's responsibilty not the Stewards. The Stewards can maybe point out some concerns on track, and mete out punishments during a SC but that's about it. They don't direct the safety car.
Exactly, he should have pointed out to the stewards that car 33 was ahead at the apex and made the corner on track so car 44 had to give the place back
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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Alexf1 wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:24 pm


Exactly, he should have pointed out to the stewards that car 33 was ahead at the apex and made the corner on track so car 44 had to give the place back
The ruling was Max forced the defending driver off track. Which we have seen many examples of actually such as at the Monaco chicane.
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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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Tvetovnato wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:44 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:41 pm
Stu wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:52 pm


1990 was an overrule by Balestre of stewards regarding pole position location, it had been successfully challenged prior to qualifying by McLaren.
Whatever happened on the last lap was within the rules of the sport. Was it within the spirit? No. Was allowing Hamilton to recover a lap and a half at Imola fair? No.

The whole debacle of Hamilton having lost the title because of a power or an authority is a myth. He and Mercedes lost it because of their own mistakes and lost it to a better driver. That's all.

Let's get on with it already! The whole world knows this retirement drama is just that, drama!

It is amazing how Abu Dhabi is being discussed to date yet Imola, Baku, Hungary are never discussed.

Verstappen would have won the WDC in either car. I would go as far as to say Wolff cost Hamilton the title with all his shenanigans and I had predicted this on this forum since 2018. Hamilton saved him that year and dear lord when it was closer he just collapsed.
The reason you don’t see any reasonable comparisons with Imola, Baku, Hungary is that those are completely incomparable with Abu Dhabi to start with. Those were all cases of luck/bad luck, as happens in all sports every year and always has an impact on the season result. Abu Dhabi was not luck or bad luck, it was a case of the race director deciding to break the SC rules in a way that has never been seen before, just in order to benefit no one else than Verstappen, since it was only the cars between him and Hamilton that were cleared. Thus he didn’t care about anyone else on the grid at that time, i.e not providing the same racing opportunities for everyone. What suprises me is that people actually still try to defend this. I would never want my favourite driver to win the championship in that way, no matter how deserving he is during a season. Sporting fairness should always be central in sports, and it obviously wasn’t here. It was a staging of the result, and it’s as criminal now as it was in December.
Well then, you lot can go on and on about it. The World Championship for 2021 is decided.
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aran.vtec
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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There is allot of pages here so forgive me if i have missed this or if someone has already explained it,

But here is my take

after the crash Lewis was in a loose loose situation as you can hear by the conversation between him and bono:
They expected lapped cars to unlap
They expected max to be behind Lewis on new softs
they couldn't pit because would loose track position and if the race didn't restart they would look very silly by literally giving the title away but they just weren't sure "it may not restart"
as we have seen in many races before 2nd place car has an advantage in these situations.

So far non of the above has been the issue, It all started letting only certain lapped cars pass and not others.





On lap 55 the Williams was basically off the track, Even as Palmer thought it all looked good for lapped cars to unlap on lap 56 giving them plenty of time to do so and would of avoided all the controversy that followed.

Alonso also couldn't understand why it wasn't allowed
Cristian came onto the radio asking why, with masi reply "Christian i am working on it"

So why wasn't this done? what was the hold up? what was he waiting for?

Alexf1
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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aran.vtec wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:31 am
There is allot of pages here so forgive me if i have missed this or if someone has already explained it,

But here is my take

after the crash Lewis was in a loose loose situation as you can hear by the conversation between him and bono:
They expected lapped cars to unlap
They expected max to be behind Lewis on new softs
they couldn't pit because would loose track position and if the race didn't restart they would look very silly by literally giving the title away but they just weren't sure "it may not restart"
as we have seen in many races before 2nd place car has an advantage in these situations.

So far non of the above has been the issue, It all started letting only certain lapped cars pass and not others.





On lap 55 the Williams was basically off the track, Even as Palmer thought it all looked good for lapped cars to unlap on lap 56 giving them plenty of time to do so and would of avoided all the controversy that followed.

Alonso also couldn't understand why it wasn't allowed
Cristian came onto the radio asking why, with masi reply "Christian i am working on it"

So why wasn't this done? what was the hold up? what was he waiting for?
Think he wanted to have the sweeping marshalls off the track first after seeing some unlapping cars behave badly in Imola 2020. But he could have solved that easily by warning these teams that their drivers should go slow through turn 13 and 14 and keep the inside.

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dans79
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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Alexf1 wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:59 am
But he could have solved that easily by warning these teams that their drivers should go slow through turn 13 and 14 and keep the inside.
No he couldn't, because no rule or precedent exists for that. They were already in safety car mode, so his only other option under the current rules was a red flag!
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Alexf1
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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dans79 wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:25 pm
Alexf1 wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:59 am
But he could have solved that easily by warning these teams that their drivers should go slow through turn 13 and 14 and keep the inside.
No he couldn't, because no rule or precedent exists for that. They were already in safety car mode, so his only other option under the current rules was a red flag!
Why could he not have asked? He doesn't need a rule for that. And a red flag would have been done if the crashed car blocks the track, which it didn't.

Jolle
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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Alexf1 wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:46 pm
dans79 wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:25 pm
Alexf1 wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:59 am
But he could have solved that easily by warning these teams that their drivers should go slow through turn 13 and 14 and keep the inside.
No he couldn't, because no rule or precedent exists for that. They were already in safety car mode, so his only other option under the current rules was a red flag!
Why could he not have asked? He doesn't need a rule for that. And a red flag would have been done if the crashed car blocks the track, which it didn't.
If Masi would have let cars I lap themselves while he knew there were still marshals on track, he should and hopefully would have been removed on the spot. Those marshals count on a safe work environment and don’t expect suddenly a train of cars catching up to the field.

You cannot tamper or change safety regulations and protocols on the spot.

Alexf1
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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That's why I suggested he should instruct the teams to communicate to their drivers to drive slow through turn 13 and 14 and keep the inside which was clean with no marshalls there

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dans79
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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Alexf1 wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:46 pm
dans79 wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:25 pm
Alexf1 wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:59 am
But he could have solved that easily by warning these teams that their drivers should go slow through turn 13 and 14 and keep the inside.
No he couldn't, because no rule or precedent exists for that. They were already in safety car mode, so his only other option under the current rules was a red flag!
Why could he not have asked? He doesn't need a rule for that. And a red flag would have been done if the crashed car blocks the track, which it didn't.
Regardless of how its portrayed on tv, f1 is very cut throat at times.Drivers/teams are looking for any edge they can find.

As can be heard by radio messages almost every time a safety car is deployed, the drivers always want to go faster so they can get/keep the tires in the proper temperature window. Thus unless you have a way of forcing them to go slower, they aren't going to do it.
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Alexf1
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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dans79
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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Alexf1 wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:47 pm
Et voila: https://www.24h-lemans.com/en/news/24-h ... work-46805
yea, you mentioned that before, but as I and several others said, F1 doesn't have that.

not to mention from the very article.
Martin Goureau has the answer again: “The slow zones mean far fewer safety car interventions. Without the slow zones, we’d have an American Nascar-style race where the safety car is out virtually all the time. Yes, the slow zone neutralises the race over a kilometre or two but things carry on as normal over the remaining 10 or 12 km.”
One to Two kilometers is a significant chunk of an f1 lap. Spa at 7.004 km is the longest track on the callendar. Mexico is 4.304km. They aren't going to ask the drivers to crawl along for ~20% to ~50% of a lap, they will just read flag the race.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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Alexf1 wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:47 pm
Et voila: https://www.24h-lemans.com/en/news/24-h ... work-46805
I suggested the idea of slow zones for F1 a few months ago. Lots of people seemed to think they wouldn't work in F1 although nobody gave a good reason. I think there was a general "the drivers will still drive too quickly" excuse but that isn't much of an excuse in my book.
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Jolle
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:57 pm
Alexf1 wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:47 pm
Et voila: https://www.24h-lemans.com/en/news/24-h ... work-46805
I suggested the idea of slow zones for F1 a few months ago. Lots of people seemed to think they wouldn't work in F1 although nobody gave a good reason. I think there was a general "the drivers will still drive too quickly" excuse but that isn't much of an excuse in my book.
The problem isn't that there isn't a solution for shorter safety car periods, but that rules to make it shorter were made on the spot.
When you agree before a GP, with drivers, teams, marshals, etc that when you have a safety car, you don't let cars loose until the marshals are off the track and the track is clear, everybody expects that and make decisions accordingly. Marshalls know, when the safety car has past, they have two/three minutes to work in a safe way, teams know how much laps it will be, etc etc.

If before the event it was clear, for instance: in the case of a SC five laps before the end, we going to everything possible, to finish under green, like unlapping when there were still people on track, etc etc, Mercedes would have pitted Hamilton. etc etc etc.

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nzjrs
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:04 pm
If before the event it was clear, for instance: in the case of a SC five laps before the end, we going to everything possible, to finish under green, like unlapping when there were still people on track, etc etc, Mercedes would have pitted Hamilton. etc etc etc.
Wait, I thought this was clear to everyone. There is no one on this planet that wanted the season to finish in SC.

FWIW I believe this would have played out exactly the same if the positions were reversed (because see above)

--- happens, as they say.