Applying old points system to 2021 results

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nzjrs
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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Jolle wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:59 am
notsofast wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:39 pm
Looking back on last season, the one thing that bothered me the most was that a driver who is judged to be "predominantly at fault" can earn more points than the driver he disadvantaged. That part just doesn't sit well with me. Other kinds of misfortune are part of the sport.
Veering waaaaay off topic, but for last season you also could say, both Hamilton and Verstappen had one DNF caused by other driver. Verstappen was unlucky he took himself out as well. Both also had one DNF because of misfortune, which had nothing much to do with pure race craft (Baku).

So both drivers were taken out by the other (even) both had a mishap (even) but Verstappen took himself out at Monza.
The race did a better and more comprehensive version of your arithmetic here https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hug ... -and-lost/

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wogx
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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I still don't get it - why is it counted as Verstappen's fault? He was not alongside with Lewis at T1, but at T2 it looked different - his front wing was in one line with FL wheel of Lewis' Mercedes. Shouldn't Hamilton leave him space at that moment? If Lewis had given him an extra bit of space, then Verstappen wouldn't hit that kerb, wouldn't go airborne and wouldn't end on top of Hamilton's car.

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AeroDynamic
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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wogx wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:46 pm
I still don't get it - why is it counted as Verstappen's fault? He was not alongside with Lewis at T1, but at T2 it looked different - his front wing was in one line with FL wheel of Lewis' Mercedes. Shouldn't Hamilton leave him space at that moment? If Lewis had given him an extra bit of space, then Verstappen wouldn't hit that kerb, wouldn't go airborne and wouldn't end on top of Hamilton's car.
Basically, as the stewards explained it, it’s about being entitled to space. Lewis had secured turn 1 at the last breaking zone board, and Max was still arriving at the first breaking zone board (at that point, his wing is not alongside Hamilton’s rear wheel, if I recall correctly, it wasn’t near either)

Max basically doesn’t break much and carries plenty momentum of speed with him to just get alongside Hamilton’s rear left wheel by the time they take turn 1, as they head to turn 2 he is still not really in control of the car, if Hamilton wasn’t there he would’ve not made the corner properly based on the momentum he had (to catapult up the rear wheel of Hamilton’s and land on top)

If Hamilton had left him space, he would’ve been shown outside the white lines, because max simply went into turn 2 with too much momentum to make it around the inside of that corner and leave a cars width. It was basically a desperate lunge to stay alongside and be entitled to space - space he earned a little bit, but only enough to concede, it he had no intention of conceding because it was for the race win, so they made him predominantly to blame for the crash. The stewards worked this out based on how far behind he was at the beginning of the breaking zone, and how much speed he had to carry on order to catch up nearly half way alongside for turn 2, any other driver would’ve conceded.

To take that comparison further, compare Max’s concession against Ricciardo in the same turn 1-2 sequence in the beginning of the race. If he thought he could do that to Hamilton, why not do it for the lead against ricciardo? It was one of those ‘going for it no matter what happens, either result is likely a win scenario’ move.
wogx wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:46 pm
his front wing was in one line with FL wheel of Lewis' Mercedes. Shouldn't Hamilton leave him space at that moment?
Can you explain with this logic, why Verstappen would expect space on this scenario to be given, if he does not give space to the same driver whose car is completely evenly along side him at the entry of turn 4 in the first lap? If the judgement is ‘you should leave me space, because my car is almost alongside you fully’ then why doesn’t verstappen race with this principle in turn 4 lap 1? The drivers have to race within the same rules / expectations.

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hollus
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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Who pushed whom into which kerbs? Not here, thanks.
I would like to see a paleontologist.

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wogx
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Re: Applying old points system to 2021 results

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Okay, that's a reasonable explanation. I've forgotten about that lap 1 situation