2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Slahinki
Slahinki
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Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:09 am

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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God no, why on earth would we take Ron Dennis of all people back? Him and his mismanagement of the team is why Adrian Newey left, why we were left with attrocious Whitmarsh as a team principal, why we had to suffer with matrix management until 2018 or so and a significant portion to blame for the disaster that was McHonda we're still trying to recover from. That man was out of date by the mid/late '90s. Let's leave him in the history books where he belongs.

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Xero
32
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:11 pm
Location: Moray, Scotland

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Encouraging pace in FP2. The car may be draggy, but it's producing decent downforce along with it.

As for some of these comments... Ron Dennis is gone and never coming back, get over it. And to make it sound like McLaren are holding Lando hostage is just ridiculously brutal. Some of this fanbase are so out of touch it's unreal, and putting the team down at every opportunity. The mind boggles!

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:54 am

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Must have been a first in formula on that a mechanic is caught on camera trying to put a rear wheel on the other way round.

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mclaren111
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Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:49 am
Location: Shithole - South Africa

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Pat Pending wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:34 pm
mwillems wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:04 pm
haza wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 4:42 pm
Any word on drag this weekend ?
I'm in my dress from 7pm this evening and performing at the Bulls head in Silverstone all weekend.
:lol:
Team wear by RuPaul perhaps?

Who's RuPaul ?

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djos
99
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 5:09 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

Post

mclaren111 wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:10 am
Pat Pending wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:34 pm
mwillems wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:04 pm


I'm in my dress from 7pm this evening and performing at the Bulls head in Silverstone all weekend.
:lol:
Team wear by RuPaul perhaps?

Who's RuPaul ?
Iirc a drag Queen.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

geogate
geogate
1
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:25 am

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Cant believe just how fickle people are on here - They are still 4th in championship for goodness sakes. They are vastly out-resourced by the 3 teams above them. It's disappointing, i agree, but thats all it is - they are far, far from the point of having to rebuild the team

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djos
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 5:09 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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geogate wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:15 am
Cant believe just how fickle people are on here - They are still 4th in championship for goodness sakes. They are vastly out-resourced by the 3 teams above them. It's disappointing, i agree, but thats all it is - they are far, far from the point of having to rebuild the team
Even Alpine have more resources than Mclaren and Mclaren are beating them most weekends!
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

McL-H
McL-H
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Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 3:18 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Slahinki wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:04 pm
God no, why on earth would we take Ron Dennis of all people back? Him and his mismanagement of the team is why Adrian Newey left, why we were left with attrocious Whitmarsh as a team principal, why we had to suffer with matrix management until 2018 or so and a significant portion to blame for the disaster that was McHonda we're still trying to recover from. That man was out of date by the mid/late '90s. Let's leave him in the history books where he belongs.
Ron is what made McLaren to what it is today. Without him the McLaren name would have been long gone. All the championships and races we won, would never had existed. He is the heart and soul of McLaren. That doesn’t mean he did not made any mistakes. He did. But the reason he wasn’t afraid to make mistakes is what made McLaren so great to begin with. And had Honda had done their homework, things could have gone a lot different in 2015-2017 too.

I think McLaren should get the right people in the right place and thus get Ron back as Team Principal and get Adrian Newey back and to hell with Prodromou and Key who have not proven themselves to be of McLaren material. We need back someone who does not settle with the mediocrity they bring forward, but someone who understands what it takes to be successful in F1, even if it means everyone will hate your guts.

Brown and Seidl are spreading a loser mentality around the team. It is not in their actions, but in their words. You can even smell it when you see them walk past the screen. They are fine with just being “behind the top teams” in P4 (and this poor mentality has even infected some of our own fans) because they have no idea what it is to be the top team in F1 themselves and hell they don’t have any clue how to become one again.

They should say they are here to make McLaren the best team in F1 again, that dominates the field and gives Ferrari a run for their money again. And they should say it like they mean it. Yet, they are here talking about falling behind Alpine and fighting for P4. I didn’t keep supporting this team to hear that losers mentality. I expect more of them.

SilviuAgo
SilviuAgo
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Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:08 pm

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Slahinki wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:04 pm
God no, why on earth would we take Ron Dennis of all people back? Him and his mismanagement of the team is why Adrian Newey left, why we were left with attrocious Whitmarsh as a team principal, why we had to suffer with matrix management until 2018 or so and a significant portion to blame for the disaster that was McHonda we're still trying to recover from. That man was out of date by the mid/late '90s. Let's leave him in the history books where he belongs.
Totally agree. Dennis was good for '90s...but now, his management still is obsolete.

mwillems
mwillems
8
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:11 pm

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Well my point was simply that the team is just as culpable as their tools and resources and there may be opportunities to improve our team in the future and that may be required to get us to the top.

Not sure why this creates such a sensitive issue, it's common sense. I only mention it because few others seem to. And then when it comes up it seems to create polar extreme reactions but those that react in extremes should probably look to themselves.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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djos
99
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 5:09 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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McL-H wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:35 am
Slahinki wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:04 pm
God no, why on earth would we take Ron Dennis of all people back? Him and his mismanagement of the team is why Adrian Newey left, why we were left with attrocious Whitmarsh as a team principal, why we had to suffer with matrix management until 2018 or so and a significant portion to blame for the disaster that was McHonda we're still trying to recover from. That man was out of date by the mid/late '90s. Let's leave him in the history books where he belongs.
Ron is what made McLaren to what it is today. Without him the McLaren name would have been long gone. All the championships and races we won, would never had existed. He is the heart and soul of McLaren. That doesn’t mean he did not made any mistakes. He did. But the reason he wasn’t afraid to make mistakes is what made McLaren so great to begin with. And had Honda had done their homework, things could have gone a lot different in 2015-2017 too.

I think McLaren should get the right people in the right place and thus get Ron back as Team Principal and get Adrian Newey back and to hell with Prodromou and Key who have not proven themselves to be of McLaren material. We need back someone who does not settle with the mediocrity they bring forward, but someone who understands what it takes to be successful in F1, even if it means everyone will hate your guts.

Brown and Seidl are spreading a loser mentality around the team. It is not in their actions, but in their words. You can even smell it when you see them walk past the screen. They are fine with just being “behind the top teams” in P4 (and this poor mentality has even infected some of our own fans) because they have no idea what it is to be the top team in F1 themselves and hell they don’t have any clue how to become one again.

They should say they are here to make McLaren the best team in F1 again, that dominates the field and gives Ferrari a run for their money again. And they should say it like they mean it. Yet, they are here talking about falling behind Alpine and fighting for P4. I didn’t keep supporting this team to hear that losers mentality. I expect more of them.
Ron stopped being successful for the same reasons as the Williams family, they failed to modernise their approach to management.

The fact is that the “boss” structure just didn’t work anymore, companies that are successful now are using “Agile” methodologies. Just look at what SpaceX are doing to see how this philosophy has upended the old school cost-plus based space industry.

The same is true in F1, RedBull and Mercedes both use the Agile philosophy (I have no insight into Ferrari).
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

mwillems
mwillems
8
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:11 pm

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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djos wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:55 am
McL-H wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:35 am
Slahinki wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:04 pm
God no, why on earth would we take Ron Dennis of all people back? Him and his mismanagement of the team is why Adrian Newey left, why we were left with attrocious Whitmarsh as a team principal, why we had to suffer with matrix management until 2018 or so and a significant portion to blame for the disaster that was McHonda we're still trying to recover from. That man was out of date by the mid/late '90s. Let's leave him in the history books where he belongs.
Ron is what made McLaren to what it is today. Without him the McLaren name would have been long gone. All the championships and races we won, would never had existed. He is the heart and soul of McLaren. That doesn’t mean he did not made any mistakes. He did. But the reason he wasn’t afraid to make mistakes is what made McLaren so great to begin with. And had Honda had done their homework, things could have gone a lot different in 2015-2017 too.

I think McLaren should get the right people in the right place and thus get Ron back as Team Principal and get Adrian Newey back and to hell with Prodromou and Key who have not proven themselves to be of McLaren material. We need back someone who does not settle with the mediocrity they bring forward, but someone who understands what it takes to be successful in F1, even if it means everyone will hate your guts.

Brown and Seidl are spreading a loser mentality around the team. It is not in their actions, but in their words. You can even smell it when you see them walk past the screen. They are fine with just being “behind the top teams” in P4 (and this poor mentality has even infected some of our own fans) because they have no idea what it is to be the top team in F1 themselves and hell they don’t have any clue how to become one again.

They should say they are here to make McLaren the best team in F1 again, that dominates the field and gives Ferrari a run for their money again. And they should say it like they mean it. Yet, they are here talking about falling behind Alpine and fighting for P4. I didn’t keep supporting this team to hear that losers mentality. I expect more of them.
Ron stopped being successful for the same reasons as the Williams family, they failed to modernise their approach to management.

The fact is that the “boss” structure just didn’t work anymore, companies that are successful now are using “Agile” methodologies. Just look at what SpaceX are doing to see how this philosophy has upended the old school cost-plus based space industry.

The same is true in F1, RedBull and Mercedes both use the Agile philosophy (I have no insight into Ferrari).
Agile methodologies are just methods of delivering projects, you could have a matrix structure that uses an Agile delivery method for their parts.

Matrix structure is a type of reporting structure. Mclaren have moved back to an old "Boss" structure in which individuals have direct reports and people have direct responsibilities. What they then tried to do was create a culture when people learned from their mistakes and were not blamed for them, so that everyone felt comfortable sharing ideas.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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djos
99
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 5:09 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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You clearly don’t work for a company that lives and Breathe’s Agile.

I do and we have a very very flat management structure and there is zero matrix type BS to get in the way.

I’m the head of Incident, problem and service level management for my org - Agile includes things like blameless retrospectives to analyse what when wrong and how we can improve. It’s not just a project management methodology, it’s a company culture.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

ScottR267
ScottR267
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Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:27 pm

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

Post

djos wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:55 am
McL-H wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:35 am
Slahinki wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:04 pm
God no, why on earth would we take Ron Dennis of all people back? Him and his mismanagement of the team is why Adrian Newey left, why we were left with attrocious Whitmarsh as a team principal, why we had to suffer with matrix management until 2018 or so and a significant portion to blame for the disaster that was McHonda we're still trying to recover from. That man was out of date by the mid/late '90s. Let's leave him in the history books where he belongs.
Ron is what made McLaren to what it is today. Without him the McLaren name would have been long gone. All the championships and races we won, would never had existed. He is the heart and soul of McLaren. That doesn’t mean he did not made any mistakes. He did. But the reason he wasn’t afraid to make mistakes is what made McLaren so great to begin with. And had Honda had done their homework, things could have gone a lot different in 2015-2017 too.

I think McLaren should get the right people in the right place and thus get Ron back as Team Principal and get Adrian Newey back and to hell with Prodromou and Key who have not proven themselves to be of McLaren material. We need back someone who does not settle with the mediocrity they bring forward, but someone who understands what it takes to be successful in F1, even if it means everyone will hate your guts.

Brown and Seidl are spreading a loser mentality around the team. It is not in their actions, but in their words. You can even smell it when you see them walk past the screen. They are fine with just being “behind the top teams” in P4 (and this poor mentality has even infected some of our own fans) because they have no idea what it is to be the top team in F1 themselves and hell they don’t have any clue how to become one again.

They should say they are here to make McLaren the best team in F1 again, that dominates the field and gives Ferrari a run for their money again. And they should say it like they mean it. Yet, they are here talking about falling behind Alpine and fighting for P4. I didn’t keep supporting this team to hear that losers mentality. I expect more of them.
Ron stopped being successful for the same reasons as the Williams family, they failed to modernise their approach to management.

The fact is that the “boss” structure just didn’t work anymore, companies that are successful now are using “Agile” methodologies. Just look at what SpaceX are doing to see how this philosophy has upended the old school cost-plus based space industry.

The same is true in F1, RedBull and Mercedes both use the Agile philosophy (I have no insight into Ferrari).
Have to agree with Djos, Ron was successful in his day however failed to adapt to the changing and modernisation of F1- very similar to Arsenal Wenger at Arsenal for any football (soccer fans).

It’s not as easy as just getting Newey back as that will never happen. He seems happy at Red Bull with their facilities and free reign he has on working both the F1 team and other projects Red Bull have.

Getting McLaren back to the front of the grid is not an overnight job, as they say Rome was not built in a day. The team still has a resource disadvantages to the big 3 which is hugely detrimental. When McLaren’s resources match the big 3 then yes it is fair to question their performance to the 3 ahead but until then it’s difficult too as the team know they’re at a disadvantage.

mwillems
mwillems
8
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:11 pm

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

Post

djos wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:11 pm
You clearly don’t work for a company that lives and Breathe’s Agile.

I do and we have a very very flat management structure and there is zero matrix type BS to get in the way.

I’m the head of Incident, problem and service level management for my org - Agile includes things like blameless retrospectives to analyse what when wrong and how we can improve. It’s not just a project management methodology, it’s a company culture.
It CAN be, your company is not representative of many workplaces.

I am the manager of master data and meta data for a multi billion pound bank, we have a traditional structure and use agile in projects only, and not all of them. I'm procuring software and we will be using prince2/Agile hybrid methodology to implement it.

But I have seen very few companies use Agile for more than just projects and having been a contractor I've worked for a lot.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.