2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
mwillems
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:08 pm
mwillems wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:27 am
SmallSoldier wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:22 pm


The latest update (Singapore) implied a Chassis change, that’s why only Lando had it there and then Daniel in Japan… I’m sure that based on time constraints and been in the middle of the season didn’t allow them to implement all the changes they would have liked.

Read that for example a clear change would be on trying to raise the back of the car a bit more in order to allow additional suspension travel and therefore more compliance from it, that was one of the challenges this year in the sense that the car was designed to run pretty flat, which involved a very rigid rear suspension setup (to avoid it from bottoming out) and the necessity to raise the car a bit more than what they would have wanted in order to avoid both bottoming and porpoising… I don’t think we will see rake like in the previous generation, but the concept and the Tunnel design will probably have that in mind.
The Singapore update wasn't chassis related, but the floor that they tested and did not race recently was only fully compatible with a higher rear, which this car cannot run.

So the team have made clear that they will raise the rear in the new car by showing that design. Alongside those sidepods, it seems that they have chosen the general direction of Red Bull, but I suppose that could change.
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp ... vie-1.webp


What is so high about the RBR rear suspension?

The regs are already forcing the floor sides up 15 MM in comparison to this year and in correlation to the plank. They are also increasing the min diffuser throat size. The result is by doing nothing, the change in regs, are forcing the car to be higher off the ground at the same 2022 suspension settings.

Notice how the line between #1 and #2 is higher up in 2023 than it is in 2022. That is the throat. The #3 is the floor sides.
It's not old school high up, but higher than the Macca and it requires changes to have a softer rear end.
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mwillems
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:23 pm
mwillems wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:04 am
MrGapes wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:41 am


I do believe the chassis required alterations for the Singapore upgrade, to fully pursue red bull's design philosophy chassis changes will 100% be needed...things like the lower sis bar positioning needs to be changed etc.
I "think" the chassis wasn't changed, it was detached from everything on and in it, and then parts reattached.

This allowed parts to move and a new shape accommodated.

A change to the chassis would take months due to crash testing and Mclaren would probably not have had time to do this, or the cost.

I'd imagine they'll wait until the chassis design of next year's car is complete so it can all be done at once.

Crash testing happens from now onwards I think.
We may be confusing what the Chassis is with what the “Tub” and safety structures are, two different things… The tub is part of the chassis (and the one going through crash test requirements)
Roll bars and side impact structure too, as well as from the floor to ensure that the fuel tank is protected.
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diffuser
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:29 pm
diffuser wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:21 pm
PhillipM wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:17 pm
It's forcing the floor edges to be higher, not the car ride height.
Added a picture afterwords. The throat is higher.

The higher the ride high, the further off the ground you're getting. Clearly, everyone wants to get as close to the ground as possible (without causing a stall). They fought the FIA tooth and nail to go down from the intial 25mm reg change.

unless you're talking about suspension travel.
The plank is still in the same position (and what is effectively bottoming out)… Raising the Tunnel Throat and Raising the Floor Edge won’t affect that.

McLaren’s current tunnel concept implied running with a low ride height and rigid rear suspension (short suspension travel), by moving to a concept that works with increased ride height, they can use a softer suspension and therefore have a car that is more compliant on the kerbs, bumps and potentially managing porpoising better.

Ride height to me is, the level the car runs at when it's closest to the ground. The way you're describing this, is you want McLaren to have a little more rear suspension travel. This will allow them the ability to add differnt types of spring stiffnesses so the stiffness varies as it travels through the different heights. Kind of like back in 2021 when they ran high rake?

So you want to be able to run a little more rake, so under braking in slower speed corners, the nose is closer to the ground, gives you a little more front axle DF and once on the throttle the softness will be there to get better traction. Under heigher speeds(over 100KPH), the DF will force the car down on to a lower springs level where they stiffen up to a perfect ride height that maximizes DF.

mwillems
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Yes, basically you cannot run old school rake levels on this car, but RB have shown that you can run a little rake and have a softer rear end and claw a little bit of the rake benefit back and Mclaren are planning to do this on next years car.
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mwillems
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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http://ipic.su/img/img7/fs/20221118_141 ... 756334.jpg

Regarding the floor and ride height. There was further elaboration from Mclaren somewhere, but this is from the Abu Dhabi GP, stating that it is to test the effect on ride height behaviour. The word behaviour suggesting on track behaviour and not just sitting still behaviour, otherwise it would be static.

The Skate is they key change, in that it will prevent the car bottoming out and if I recall, also creates a form of skirt that helps seal the floor. This negates the need for as stiff a rear end as the Skate will be able to do some of that job.

I guess they can't use too much rake because they need the ride height to be low enough in the corners that it can still produce enough downforce even though the car is only under a partial aero load.
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Spoutnik
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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What kind of car Lando like ? Or put it in another way what's his driving style ?

McL should draw a car based on his style
He said all year that he agree with Daniel, the car was tricky and didn't fit his driving style (n)either

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djos
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Spoutnik wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:16 am
What kind of car Lando like ? Or put it in another way what's his driving style ?

McL should draw a car based on his style
He said all year that he agree with Daniel, the car was tricky and didn't fit his driving style (n)either
One that is predictable and fast is usually a good start!
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

PhillipM
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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One that's fast. Any good driver will drive around any issues so long as the car is bloody quick.

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diffuser
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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djos wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:19 am
Spoutnik wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:16 am
What kind of car Lando like ? Or put it in another way what's his driving style ?

McL should draw a car based on his style
He said all year that he agree with Daniel, the car was tricky and didn't fit his driving style (n)either
One that is predictable and fast is usually a good start!
I think the question is, what do McLaren have to do to build a car with a strong front end? They haven't accomplished it in well over 5 years.

Mostlyeels
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:50 am
djos wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:19 am
Spoutnik wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:16 am
What kind of car Lando like ? Or put it in another way what's his driving style ?

McL should draw a car based on his style
He said all year that he agree with Daniel, the car was tricky and didn't fit his driving style (n)either
One that is predictable and fast is usually a good start!
I think the question is, what do McLaren have to do to build a car with a strong front end? They haven't accomplished it in well over 5 years.
Key seems confident they know for this year's car. I understand you're talking about longer-term deficiencies in the technical team though.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/mclarens ... xing-them/
“It’s a case of getting to that point. With restricted aero and a cost cap you can’t push through as aggressively as you’d like to. You’ve got to work within that framework.

“We know we know exactly the directions we want to pursue. Some of the developments will allow those directions to open up the characteristics which would improve the car further.
That was from mid-season, and sort of couched in the split in development between this year and next year.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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PhillipM wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:31 am
One that's fast. Any good driver will drive around any issues so long as the car is bloody quick.
Yip, points will overcome any dislikes.
I would assume he is saying 'make the fastest car you can and I will adapt', even knowing if he does not there is a precedent.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

Spoutnik
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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djos wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:19 am
Spoutnik wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:16 am
What kind of car Lando like ? Or put it in another way what's his driving style ?

McL should draw a car based on his style
He said all year that he agree with Daniel, the car was tricky and didn't fit his driving style (n)either
One that is predictable and fast is usually a good start!
He doesn't have a driving style ?
I know Carlos liked a lot the 2019/2020 McLaren because it was very understeery
Maybe Lando would like a McLaren with a very strong front end, unlike in the past few years

CjC
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Spoutnik wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:16 am
What kind of car Lando like ? Or put it in another way what's his driving style ?

McL should draw a car based on his style
He said all year that he agree with Daniel, the car was tricky and didn't fit his driving style (n)either
He said on Sky after the Abu Dhabi race that he likes a strong front end and I quote: ‘I don’t need rear tyres’ (joke)
Basically his style fits in with Hamilton, Verstappen etc and we know what they achieved….
Just a fan's point of view

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Spoutnik wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:39 am
djos wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:19 am
Spoutnik wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:16 am
What kind of car Lando like ? Or put it in another way what's his driving style ?

McL should draw a car based on his style
He said all year that he agree with Daniel, the car was tricky and didn't fit his driving style (n)either
One that is predictable and fast is usually a good start!
He doesn't have a driving style ?
I know Carlos liked a lot the 2019/2020 McLaren because it was very understeery
Maybe Lando would like a McLaren with a very strong front end, unlike in the past few years
He has not make particular statements in that regard… He has extracted the most of every car McLaren has given him and the fact that the previous McLaren cars may have been “tricky” is a great learning experience from him… If he was able to get the most out of a difficult package, a simpler one would make his life that much easier and therefore you could expect more performance.

At the end of the day, the team’s job is to make the fastest car they can make… If it has a strong or lose front end (or rear end) is meaningless if the car is intrinsically fast… That’s what differentiates the likes of Verstappen, Lewis or Alonso versus their team mates, they manage to drive around the weaknesses in the package and extract the most our of their strengths and that’s why they have been successful.

The teams don’t design a nose or rear biased car, they design a car that gives them the most amount of DF / Speed at a range of corner types (and straights), they try to build a car with the most efficient DF levels… If the car is naturally under steering or over steering it’s a second thought and is expected for the drivers to manage it… No team creates a car that craters to a driver philosophy if that (on paper) is an slower car.

Furthermore, in racing it is all about compromises… There isn’t such a thing as the perfect car (although, I will argue that the W12 was close to that for that particular regulation era)… The RBR’s in order to extract that most out of their package tend to be nose heavy with a loose end, they are successful because someone like Max can drive around that and extract speed from it, while the Gasly’s, Perez’s and Albon’s of the world struggled.

Lucky
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Spoutnik wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:39 am
djos wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:19 am
Spoutnik wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:16 am
What kind of car Lando like ? Or put it in another way what's his driving style ?


McL should draw a car based on his style
He said all year that he agree with Daniel, the car was tricky and didn't fit his driving style (n)either
One that is predictable and fast is usually a good start!
He doesn't have a driving style ?
I know Carlos liked a lot the 2019/2020 McLaren because it was very understeery
Maybe Lando would like a McLaren with a very strong front end, unlike in the past few years
Lando: For me, the most important thing is that the front wheels hold the track normally, and how the rear tires work is not so important anymore.

What do you require from a car? Charles Leclerc says he has understeer and loves oversteer. How are you?
Norris: I'm knitted right there. I hate understeering cars. And that's exactly what we currently have.
Do you want to change that for next season?
Norris: I would like to. But it's not that easy. I give feedback to the team all the time. You know what I would like. At the same time, I just want them to put the fastest possible car in my hands. And if that doesn't meet my expectations, that's fine anyway. My job as a driver is to adapt to this.