FIA Thread

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Just_a_fan
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Re: FIA Thread

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fritticaldi wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:08 pm
Masi will have reinforcements in the name of German Niel Wittich from the DTM series. This solution will help ease the tension of Mercedes and Toto Wolff.
Why will that ease tension at Mercedes? Because the extra guy is German?

How will the reinforcement help if Masi still gets to make "original decisions" (to put it kindly)?
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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fritticaldi
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Re: FIA Thread

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Apparently there is nobody right now that can do Michael Masi's job. Masi was around when Charlie Whiting was at Race Control. So the Aussie learned from the best. Race control position is regarded as one of the toughest jobs in the world. Its unknown how Wittich will be doing his job. There is no official statement yet. A lot of speculation.

Jolle
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Let's not forget, buried in the Spa weekend, was the allowance of Perez back in the race after they withdrew him and took his car out of Parc ferme. Also after some pressure from RedBull.

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SiLo
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Jolle wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:52 pm
Let's not forget, buried in the Spa weekend, was the allowance of Perez back in the race after they withdrew him and took his car out of Parc ferme. Also after some pressure from RedBull.
This was pretty --- as well. For the fans it might be great but the rules were not followed here.
Felipe Baby!

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Big Tea
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Don't know how Merc and Hamilton will take it, but to be It makes more sense to fix something that is broken than to start from component parts, which is similar to what would have to happen in F1 as there seems to be no one prepared.

I think it is quite obvious what was broken, which I see as teams being able to talk to the RD during the race and one person having the ( perceived by them ) power to jump off the railtracks of the rule book in order to achieve what another section of the management want.

If he has an assistant, 'queries' can be addressed to him during the race via this filter and only relevant information passed on, probably in text form with no inflection.

He (Massi, or whoever is in that job) will not have sole responsibility/authority to make 'judgments' outside of the rule book, just a choice of options on a list, and there will probably be other checks imposed from on high to ensure this too.

As I have admitted before, I was one of those calling for him to go, but as there seems to be no one able to do the job it would be stupid to lose him.

Also, someone has been amiss not making sure there was a ready to go, plug in replacement. What if he had been taken long term ill, or even left the job?
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Jolle
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Re: FIA Thread

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Big Tea wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:12 pm
Don't know how Merc and Hamilton will take it, but to be It makes more sense to fix something that is broken than to start from component parts, which is similar to what would have to happen in F1 as there seems to be no one prepared.

I think it is quite obvious what was broken, which I see as teams being able to talk to the RD during the race and one person having the ( perceived by them ) power to jump off the railtracks of the rule book in order to achieve what another section of the management want.

If he has an assistant, 'queries' can be addressed to him during the race via this filter and only relevant information passed on, probably in text form with no inflection.

He (Massi, or whoever is in that job) will not have sole responsibility/authority to make 'judgments' outside of the rule book, just a choice of options on a list, and there will probably be other checks imposed from on high to ensure this too.

As I have admitted before, I was one of those calling for him to go, but as there seems to be no one able to do the job it would be stupid to lose him.

Also, someone has been amiss not making sure there was a ready to go, plug in replacement. What if he had been taken long term ill, or even left the job?
If it was just one or two incidents, I’m totally with you. But my feeling is that he screwed up so much over the past seasons, that a certain level of trust is gone. As a competitor you have to trust that when something happens, rules, regulations and protocols are followed like agreed. To me, what is also quite obvious, no active drivers from teams in the stewards. It was a bit of a coincidence that at the races where questionable decisions were made, Liuzzi (former RedBull driver and current Alpha Tauri sim racer) was the driver representative.
Masi had several cases where he didn’t follow protocol after a team asked him to (at least three from RedBull and one from Mercedes), that is not an incident anymore, that’s behaviour.

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nzjrs
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It makes sense [if] they keep him on (with extra support). Mercedes played their hand too publically - as Jolle says you can't have teams pressure the FIA like this. It would have set another bad precedent.
Last edited by nzjrs on Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Just_a_fan
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Re: FIA Thread

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nzjrs wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:26 pm
Makes sense they keep him on (with extra support). Mercedes played their hand too publically - as Jolle says you can't have teams pressure the FIA like this. It would have set another bad precedent.
There is precedent already - Ferrari regularly used to threaten to leave F1 if something didn't go their way. Indeed, they even got themselves a veto from Bernie back in the day because they threatened to leave.

Mercedes made a fuss, quite rightly, and got the FIA to at least publicly look at the issue. Whether anything comes from it, well that's another thing.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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nzjrs
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Sorry I have clarified my post with the conditional that shows they should resist this sort of pressure that many fans didn't like.

Just_a_fan
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Re: FIA Thread

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Jolle wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:22 pm

Masi had several cases where he didn’t follow protocol after a team asked him to (at least three from RedBull and one from Mercedes), that is not an incident anymore, that’s behaviour.
Hopefully this pressuring from the teams won't happen any more - the teams shouldn't be able to do what Mercedes and Red Bull were doing in the last race. That was bad for the sport's image, even if the broadcasters and the media mob loved the "drama" of it. It was damnably unprofessional.

Having said that, it is utterly important that the rules written down and known by everyone are the rules that are followed. Either unlap all cars or unlap none, for example. His choice, yes, but do one or the other. Then teams can decide how to run their strategies. I think that's all Mercedes want - consistency of rule interpretation. Without the pressure from the teams, this should be easier for the RD to achieve.

One thing that will be interesting if the teams can't talk to the RD directly, is what about the very common "Michael, do we have to give the place back?" type stuff? In principle, this should ensure that all teams instruct all of their drivers to give places back. Right up until someone doesn't, of course, and "gets away with it", at which point it'll be a feeding frenzy. :lol:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Big Tea
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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:05 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:22 pm

Masi had several cases where he didn’t follow protocol after a team asked him to (at least three from RedBull and one from Mercedes), that is not an incident anymore, that’s behaviour.
Hopefully this pressuring from the teams won't happen any more - the teams shouldn't be able to do what Mercedes and Red Bull were doing in the last race. That was bad for the sport's image, even if the broadcasters and the media mob loved the "drama" of it. It was damnably unprofessional.

Having said that, it is utterly important that the rules written down and known by everyone are the rules that are followed. Either unlap all cars or unlap none, for example. His choice, yes, but do one or the other. Then teams can decide how to run their strategies. I think that's all Mercedes want - consistency of rule interpretation. Without the pressure from the teams, this should be easier for the RD to achieve.

One thing that will be interesting if the teams can't talk to the RD directly, is what about the very common "Michael, do we have to give the place back?" type stuff? In principle, this should ensure that all teams instruct all of their drivers to give places back. Right up until someone doesn't, of course, and "gets away with it", at which point it'll be a feeding frenzy. :lol:
They would just ask the RD assistant, and he would tell them as Massi did or go and ask Massi and relay the answer.
Unless there is something important occupying him, I assume Massi would be watching the race anyway and could readily give the assistant an answer. Possibly though, things such as this would fall to the assistant to decide.
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Jolle
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Re: FIA Thread

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If he isn’t able to say no to a team, he has no place to be there. One of the jobs of the race director is to communicate with teams before, during and after the race. What’s next? He has a spokesperson who does the drivers briefing because a driver might suggest to not have track limits in a certain corner?

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ispano6
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Re: FIA Thread

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Jolle wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:01 am
Wouter wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:51 am
Jolle wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:25 am


I would love to be in the room when Horner has his appointment. Apart from the last race, there is also the undisclosed protest from Silverstone where they allegedly had some very bad words about Hamilton.
.
Why? What do you expect him to say that you enjoy so much?
Horners reply’s on the many why’s he might be asked in his dealings with the racing director. For instance, why did you write this down. Horner/RedBull had, with succes, a great pressure on Masi last season, with great success. Bullish at times.
We all know how an interview with Wolff would go, but it’s far more interesting to know how the team that benefited, trying to defend Masi and their own pressure on the system.
Wolff was equally bullish with his infamous e-mails and diagrams immediately after the Silverstone incident. Many thought what gall he had to make such attempts through personal e-mails. Hamilton too benefited from many "non-calls" so in the end it balanced out. Though I would say what sounded like Toto calling Masi "Mikey" during the last race was trying a bit too hard if not a bit patronizing.

Just_a_fan
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Re: FIA Thread

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ispano6 wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:47 am
Jolle wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:01 am
Wouter wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:51 am

.
Why? What do you expect him to say that you enjoy so much?
Horners reply’s on the many why’s he might be asked in his dealings with the racing director. For instance, why did you write this down. Horner/RedBull had, with succes, a great pressure on Masi last season, with great success. Bullish at times.
We all know how an interview with Wolff would go, but it’s far more interesting to know how the team that benefited, trying to defend Masi and their own pressure on the system.
Wolff was equally bullish with his infamous e-mails and diagrams immediately after the Silverstone incident. Many thought what gall he had to make such attempts through personal e-mails. Hamilton too benefited from many "non-calls" so in the end it balanced out. Though I would say what sounded like Toto calling Masi "Mikey" during the last race was trying a bit too hard if not a bit patronizing.
Both teams tried to get the best for themselves, which is entirely natural. Neither covered themselves in glory at any point during the season in their dealings with the RD, however.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

wesley123
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Re: FIA Thread

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Big Tea wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:12 pm
I think it is quite obvious what was broken, which I see as teams being able to talk to the RD during the race and one person having the ( perceived by them ) power to jump off the railtracks of the rule book in order to achieve what another section of the management want.
Teams talking to the RD was always a bad idea. But even without that, he made mistakes on various occasions, some were outright dangerous.

For example, the 2020 season;
https://mikeymcguiref1.com/2020/12/29/t ... hael-masi/

And if I remember correctly, it took an absurdly long time for Masi to call a safety car after Stroll (and/or) Verstappen
crashed on the straight, allowing cars to race past at over 300kph on a track that wasn't clear, and littered with debris.

Allowing the cars to even run the 2 laps at Spa was pretty dangerous as well, and allowing a withdrawn car to reenter the event is against the rules.

The whole season is littered with such weird, inconsistent decisions that weren't made under pressure, nor influenced by a team.
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