FIA Thread

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NathanOlder
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Re: FIA Thread

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fritticaldi wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:49 pm
Apparently there is nobody right now that can do Michael Masi's job. Masi was around when Charlie Whiting was at Race Control. So the Aussie learned from the best. Race control position is regarded as one of the toughest jobs in the world. Its unknown how Wittich will be doing his job. There is no official statement yet. A lot of speculation.
I don't who is claiming this, but what a load of BS it is, He has a set of rules, he just needs to follow them. Its nowhere near one of the hardest jobs in the world.
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Wouter
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Re: FIA Thread

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fritticaldi wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:08 pm
The Italian media is reporting that Michael Masi will likely be retained. The two likely replacements, Portuguese Eduardo Freitas and American Scott Elkins have been confirmed in their roles respectively WEC and Formula E. Masi will have reinforcements in the name of German Niel Wittich from the DTM series. This solution will help ease the tension of Mercedes and Toto Wolff.
I found the articles from FormulaPassion and an English article, who translated it. It's just a hypothesis / assumption.
It says:

Si sta dunque facendo largo un’altra ipotesi, pensata per “placare l’ira Mercedes“, come evidenziato nel sottotitolo del giornale romano: “Prende quota un rinforzo del panel diretto da Masi, a cominciare da un nuovo vice nella persona del tedesco Niel Wittich in arrivo dal DTM. Sarebbe una soluzione in grado di far digerire il pesante bolo di Abu Dhabi alla Mercedes, che ce l’ha ancora tutto sullo stomaco”.
https://www.formulapassion.it/motorspor ... 01850.html

Another hypothesis is therefore making its way, designed for “Appease the anger Mercedes“, As highlighted in the subtitle of the Roman newspaper:”A reinforcement of the panel headed by Masi takes off, starting with a new deputy in the person of the German Niel Wittich arriving from the DTM. It would be a solution capable of making Mercedes digest the heavy bolus in Abu Dhabi, which still has it all on its stomach “.
https://pledgetimes.com/the-indiscretio ... assion-it/
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Re: FIA Thread

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ispano6 wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:47 am

Wolff was equally bullish with his infamous e-mails and diagrams immediately after the Silverstone incident. Many thought what gall he had to make such attempts through personal e-mails. Hamilton too benefited from many "non-calls" so in the end it balanced out. Though I would say what sounded like Toto calling Masi "Mikey" during the last race was trying a bit too hard if not a bit patronizing.
I believe it was already confirmed that those personal emails were emails between Mercedes and Charlie Whiting from a few seasons ago about 'how to go racing/overtaking' following comings together between Lewis & Nico which would've absolved Lewis of any blame/penalty in the Silverstone incident, alas it did not and Hamilton received a penalty.

Toto was just using this to defend his drivers actions. And given the vitriol being aired on Live TV from the Red Bull camp can you really blame him?

As for Toto calling Michael Masi Mikey, I don't see what's wrong with that. As much as they have a gamekeeper/poacher relationship they spend a lot of time together. Addressing somebody by what may be a preferred or friendly name isn't patronising. However, referring to someone as Cyril the Squirrel....

basti313
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Re: FIA Thread

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KeiKo403 wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:57 am
ispano6 wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:47 am

Wolff was equally bullish with his infamous e-mails and diagrams immediately after the Silverstone incident. Many thought what gall he had to make such attempts through personal e-mails. Hamilton too benefited from many "non-calls" so in the end it balanced out. Though I would say what sounded like Toto calling Masi "Mikey" during the last race was trying a bit too hard if not a bit patronizing.
I believe it was already confirmed that those personal emails were emails between Mercedes and Charlie Whiting from a few seasons ago about 'how to go racing/overtaking' following comings together between Lewis & Nico which would've absolved Lewis of any blame/penalty in the Silverstone incident, alas it did not and Hamilton received a penalty.

Toto was just using this to defend his drivers actions. And given the vitriol being aired on Live TV from the Red Bull camp can you really blame him?

As for Toto calling Michael Masi Mikey, I don't see what's wrong with that. As much as they have a gamekeeper/poacher relationship they spend a lot of time together. Addressing somebody by what may be a preferred or friendly name isn't patronising. However, referring to someone as Cyril the Squirrel....
I do not know what "just" here means. Both Toto and Horner did clearly say themselves that it was too much.
Still they want the head of Masi to drop and I would be super surprised if it does not drop.

I think one of the core points is that there is a relationship with Masi. He (is) was friend of everyone, the nice guy.
Charlie was never the nice guy, he was the correct one. Reachable, but a patron, not a friend.
And this error of Masi being the nice guy is a core error when you are a referee or in a leading position in a company. Not because of you, but because anyone who has to work under your authority can not handle this mentally.
And this is what you can clearly hear in the voice of Toto jelling or when Jonathan or the Alpine guy were approaching him in a demanding way that was either not correct. All of them were not expecting authority, but gifts/candy from the nice guy.

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Wouter
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Re: FIA Thread

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basti313 wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:10 am
Both Toto and Horner did clearly say themselves that it was too much.
Still they want the head of Masi to drop and I would be super surprised if it does not drop.
That will not happen. Then they have to admit that they should have intervened much earlier.
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Re: FIA Thread

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Wouter wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:41 pm
basti313 wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:10 am
Both Toto and Horner did clearly say themselves that it was too much.
Still they want the head of Masi to drop and I would be super surprised if it does not drop.
That will not happen. Then they have to admit that they should have intervened much earlier.
So which sugar did the FIA give to Merc? From one day to the other Merc changed from angry child to best in class. There must have been some candy and my easy speculation is, that it is the head of Masi.

Of course this is the serious version, if we would troll a bit more we could speculate that Toto was offered a veto right over Masi :mrgreen:

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SiLo
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Re: FIA Thread

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Didn't Whiting have an assistant that worked with him? And Masi doesn't? At least that would be a first good step to make. I'd rather see him gone though.
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Jolle
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Re: FIA Thread

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I think it's very telling that the right after Mohammed bin Sulayem was installed as FIA president, the FIA wording changed. Todt, Masi and Tombazis were involved in some questionable decisions since the passing of Charlie Whiting. This stretches from the closed agreement with Ferrari up to the letter in December where they said "nothing to see here, now move on". It feels like those three dug themselves deeper and deeper into a hole where there is no clear way out and Sulayem's first action was quite a daring one, to go right against the last briefing on the matter (the December letter) and, between the lines, be very clear that he isn't happy about the way F1 has been governed the past few years. I do not believe this is a direct "instruction" from Mercedes or Wolff but more an observation of the frustration up and down the pitlane. The past few years, next to the questionable decisions during races, there have been more eyebrow raising moments. It seemed that, even if you done something fishy, you got away with it with a small slap on the wrist. For instance, next to the Ferrari deal we also had the Racing Point that was a clear copy of the Mercedes.

This has less to do with "oh yes but mercedes" or "what RedBull has done" but a string of clear mismanaged situations and cover-ups. In almost all cases the rules were clear and more rules wouldn't help because this trio kept wobbling around them anyway.

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Re: FIA Thread

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Jolle wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:25 pm
Todt, Masi and Tombazis were involved in some questionable decisions since the passing of Charlie Whiting. ...
??? Your examples do not really fit.
- The close down on engine talks is a common ground in F1. No one speaks about it. There is a clear understanding that they keep the current issues and in return drop the MGU-H for the next engine. Opening up the engine talks would mean they need to openly discuss the concept differences and to level them at some point. This is nothing anyone wants to do and the reason why this topic is neither fishy, nor closed in a strange way.

- The RP copy was in the court and all they could find was an issue with the rear brake ducts. Todt and Tombazis reacted strongly by introducing immediately a new copy rule. Nothing fishy here...

If anything it boils down to the on track battles. And I may raise the point, that we have the stupid situation now because of the point the Charlie missed to govern the racing between Rosberg and Hamilton.

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Big Tea
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Re: FIA Thread

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wesley123 wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:20 am
Big Tea wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:12 pm
I think it is quite obvious what was broken, which I see as teams being able to talk to the RD during the race and one person having the ( perceived by them ) power to jump off the railtracks of the rule book in order to achieve what another section of the management want.
Teams talking to the RD was always a bad idea. But even without that, he made mistakes on various occasions, some were outright dangerous.

For example, the 2020 season;
https://mikeymcguiref1.com/2020/12/29/t ... hael-masi/

And if I remember correctly, it took an absurdly long time for Masi to call a safety car after Stroll (and/or) Verstappen
crashed on the straight, allowing cars to race past at over 300kph on a track that wasn't clear, and littered with debris.

Allowing the cars to even run the 2 laps at Spa was pretty dangerous as well, and allowing a withdrawn car to reenter the event is against the rules.

The whole season is littered with such weird, inconsistent decisions that weren't made under pressure, nor influenced by a team.
I agree, but he has already made (many?) mistakes a new guy may well make again. It could well be Massi will make them again, but having done so once, and had time to consider his actions at leisure, he should be better placed to do the right thing next time.

Not defending him really, just saying don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

(edited for those not familiar with the adage I used :mrgreen: )
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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Re: FIA Thread

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SiLo wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:22 pm
Didn't Whiting have an assistant that worked with him? And Masi doesn't? At least that would be a first good step to make. I'd rather see him gone though.
Yes, it was Michael Masi.

KeiKo403
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Re: FIA Thread

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As it’s the *start of the year I’m sure many of use have work objectives being set for the year ahead, with that in mind what objectives would we all like to see from the Race Director in 2022?

1. Track limits, the white lines are the white lines.
2. No forcing another driver off track, if you lock up and force another driver off track tough luck, you should be in control of your car at all times…
3. Safety car - all lapped cars let through or non, not some and at the discretion of race director
4. No penalties can be served under safety car, virtual safety car or red flag (Verstappen in SA)
5. If it’s not safe to run, it’s not safe to run. Spa 2021

Anyone have any others?

basti313
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Re: FIA Thread

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KeiKo403 wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:31 am
As it’s the *start of the year I’m sure many of use have work objectives being set for the year ahead, with that in mind what objectives would we all like to see from the Race Director in 2022?

Anyone have any others?
Nice list, I will answer into it:

1. Track limits, the white lines are the white lines.
- I do not think so, I would ignore the white lines and put the sausage curb everywhere it matters. One just need to think smart if it launches a car into the sky, but besides...if you destroy the car you destroy it on the orange stuff. This worked perfectly in France, no idea why they dropped this again.

2. No forcing another driver off track, if you lock up and force another driver off track tough luck, you should be in control of your car at all times…
- In other series like DTM there are very clear rules on this and make racing really great. The rules are very strict, if you force someone off, you have to give him the position and if you drive against the rear wheel you get a drive through. This would have been possible in F1 as well, but this topic was completely spoiled starting 2014 when Mercedes was racing Mercedes and making its own rule book.

3. Safety car - all lapped cars let through or non, not some and at the discretion of race director
- Nothing wrong with that...we introduced the unlapping for the show, the unlapping hurt the show as it was too long, see Nuerburgring example...it certainly needs a tweak to be quicker and saver. I would do the unlapping while cleaning the track until the SC and release the lapped cars once track is clear, then SC in as quick as possible.

4. No penalties can be served under safety car, virtual safety car or red flag (Verstappen in SA)
- This would make a double penalty or open loop holes even more...not sure if this makes sense. Serving a 5sec penalty under SC can hurt much more than getting a free stop and driving a 5 sec gap with fresh tires.

5. If it’s not safe to run, it’s not safe to run. Spa 2021
- This is a special thing that happens every 20 years...I do not know if we need to go nuts on this example.

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Re: FIA Thread

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KeiKo403 wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:31 am
As it’s the *start of the year I’m sure many of use have work objectives being set for the year ahead, with that in mind what objectives would we all like to see from the Race Director in 2022?

1. Track limits, the white lines are the white lines.
2. No forcing another driver off track, if you lock up and force another driver off track tough luck, you should be in control of your car at all times…
3. Safety car - all lapped cars let through or non, not some and at the discretion of race director
4. No penalties can be served under safety car, virtual safety car or red flag (Verstappen in SA)
5. If it’s not safe to run, it’s not safe to run. Spa 2021

Anyone have any others?
I still cannot believe number 5 happened. It’s one of the most morally bankrupt things I think I’ve ever seen.

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Re: FIA Thread

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basti313 wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:15 pm
2. No forcing another driver off track, if you lock up and force another driver off track tough luck, you should be in control of your car at all times…
- In other series like DTM there are very clear rules on this and make racing really great. The rules are very strict, if you force someone off, you have to give him the position and if you drive against the rear wheel you get a drive through. This would have been possible in F1 as well, but this topic was completely spoiled starting 2014 when Mercedes was racing Mercedes and making its own rule book.
Off topic - but only a little.

There are interesting comparisons once can make between the DTM season finale and the F1 season finale when it comes to the rules of racing, good stewarding, public relations, and statements made by the bosses after the fact.