FIA Thread

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Sieper
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Re: FIA Thread

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Yes. And that is not right. Lewis and McLaren did nothing wrong in 2008.

I do understand massa though as he was wronged there. Not per se him, but that whole race. ^&%€ Briatore.

cheeRS
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Re: FIA Thread

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TFSA wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:07 pm
cheeRS wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:54 pm
If he wins this, that'll setup a nice precedent for Lewis to also collect a huge payday for the theft/manipulation of his 8th title in 2021. Not that he needs the money, but the legal foundation will be there for him to submit a slam dunk case.
No it doesn't. I don't want to derail the thread, so I'll just make this one post on this.

The 2008 case is alledging that the FIA and F1 kept secret that they knew of race manipulation, and as such, could have intervened, but chose not to because it would look bad for the sport. In short, it alledges corruption.

2021 was a race director making a bad call. Nothing more, nothing less. But stewards determined it was within the interpretation of the rules, and Mercedes decided - on their own - not to appeal it to the tribunal, which means they've forfeited the right to get it reviewed there by their own decision not to appeal it.
And finally, even if Abu Dhabi was cancelled, Max would still be champion.

And can we now please put this argument about this opening up the doors to have 2021 revoked to make Lewis champion to rest. Those are two entirely different cases. 2021 is not gonna be changed, no matter the outcome of the Massa case. Legally, they are not similar in any way.


chrisc90 wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:55 pm
Also opens up a LOT of other sporting decisions that may/may not have gone a drivers' way though.
It really doesn't.
I get that you’re overly sensitive to this topic as a newbie to the forum/Max/RbR fan, and there’s no sense it correcting you from that perspective, but you clearly wrote in the thoughts that you wrongly assumed were there.

To be clear, I didn’t say anything about Lewis reclaiming his 8th title after the manipulation. I pointed out that if Massa wins his lawsuit, it ALSO opens up a lawsuit to collect monetary losses. If you read Massa’s lawsuit filing, the monetary compensation is a separate stipulation from his demands that the FIA affirm the facts around crash gate.

So, hopefully you can read the above without assumptions this time.

Regarding Lewis, you don’t have to worry or panic that he’s going to get 2021 corrected. We all saw the manipulation that Masi engineered and we saw that Lewis chose to take the high road, and made sure his team did the same. For the record, that doesn’t mean what happened was not a corrupt manipulation and that is why many drivers/fans/team bosses will have an asterisk next to the 2021 WDC. And you made this point more pronounced when admitting that if they cancelled AD 2022 Max would still be the champion, thus making Masi’s meddling even more powerful. At any rate, whether we see a suit/challenge come against that farce in years to come remains to be seen, but let’s save that for another thread.

Again, I’ll say this explicitly: the point is that this lawsuit can result in compensation for Massa, which opens the door for Lewis. Do any of us think that the WDC of 2008 is going to be handed to Massa? Well, given the fanbase here, that question probably isn’t rhetorical 😂
BUT. If I was Massa, I’d have a pretty darn good chance of collecting a VERY comfortable retirement.

In most sports, results can’t be changed anyway, let alone championship outcomes (Olympic games notwithstanding).
🤭 wrote:
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TFSA
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Re: FIA Thread

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cheeRS wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2024 10:11 pm
I get that you’re overly sensitive to this topic as a newbie to the forum/Max/RbR fan, and there’s no sense it correcting you from that perspective, but you clearly wrote in the thoughts that you wrongly assumed were there.

To be clear, I didn’t say anything about Lewis reclaiming his 8th title after the manipulation. I pointed out that if Massa wins his lawsuit, it ALSO opens up a lawsuit to collect monetary losses. If you read Massa’s lawsuit filing, the monetary compensation is a separate stipulation from his demands that the FIA affirm the facts around crash gate.

So, hopefully you can read the above without assumptions this time.
I hate breaking my own stipulation about my last post and only replying once, but....
  • Just because I'm new to the forum doesn't mean that I'm new to Formula 1. I came here for high-level discussion because i became tired of the Reddit/Facebook-discord.
  • What i do is specialise is legal takes. That does not make me a Max/RBR fan. All i did was provide a legal analysis of the two situations.
  • You are the one who brought up AD2021, and even yourself called it (QUOTE) "Theft/manipulation of his 8th title". Before accusing others of bias, please check your own first, because that expression is heavily biased in itself.
  • Monetary compensation still requires there to be a case to begin with. Even if he isn't after the title, he still doesn't have one. While the monetary request is a separate requirement, it still relies on the same assumptions, that F1 and the FIA has cost him money by acting in bad faith. So it's the same basic argument. The reason that it's filed as a separate claim is that even if the argument is the same, the legal framework that makes it possible or not possible might be different. It's possible that a court would deny him the title, but award him the compensation. But the ground argument is the same.
And now I'm out. You want to continue this discussion, I'm sure a topic dedicated to the lawsuit will pop up at some point.

CMSMJ1
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Re: FIA Thread

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AD21. No thanks.
Leave it out, let's see what Massa does.

Feels like a bad idea to me. He'll never get the books reprinted, or the memories changed about who won the WDC.

He's had some poor advice.
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Espresso
Espresso
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Re: FIA Thread

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Sieper wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2024 10:09 pm
Yes. And that is not right. Lewis and McLaren did nothing wrong in 2008.

I do understand massa though as he was wronged there. Not per se him, but that whole race. ^&%€ Briatore.
Well sequel’s in the make :lol:
THE STRATEGIST: How Haas cleverly used Magnussen to allow Hulkenberg to snatch the final point in Jeddah.