FIA Thread

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Quantum
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Re: FIA Thread

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Big Tea wrote:
Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:04 am

That is of course if everything is as it seems above board. There may well have been 'suggestions from important people' (not team bosses), that the show would be better if this did or did not happen at times, which he would then have to mention in his own defence. And they may not want that to happen, so keep him sweet but don't let on.

There are many FIA jobs in Aus, or that can be done remotely.
I'd doubt anything provable exists on that side of things. But when there's a lack of information surrounding the decision, and how it was the first time in F1 history that not all cars were allowed to unlap themselves, it's inside the realms of possibility.
The whole thing is calamitous.
"Interplay of triads"

KeiKo403
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Re: FIA Thread

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I believe that Masi has absolutely had a fat pay out.

He made a decision which stewards at the time backed. The outgoing president said “move along, nothing to see here”.
An investigation was launched where he was only found to have made a “human error”, not quite a sackable offence given the stewards and Todt publicly supporting the call initially. Not to mention all of the other problems he had throughout the season with not one of his bosses telling him he needs to do better. And that’s F1s fault too because they called for the “let them race” nonsense to spice up the show at the cost of sportsmanship.

If the FIA placed him in a role he probably didn’t want, he could’ve threatened constructive dismissal claims and refused to sign NDAs (let’s not kid ourselves, there are definitely NDAs at play here) unless the FIA gives him a nice big pay off. All conjecture, yes. But in my mind it’s actually quite a likely scenario.

The FIA did not help themselves by backing him initially.

[tinFoilHat]There’s weirdly a little part of me, a conspiracy theory side of me which thinks it was Todt’s final act of ensuring that Schumachers record wasn’t beaten.[/tinFoilHat] Sorry for bringing that into it.

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Sieper
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Re: FIA Thread

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tinfoilhat mode on.

Mercedes made a much noise as they can so that in the future "what will mercedes think of it" will be the guiding principle when making decisions. If I don't do that I will get sacked. Seems a very bad principle.

tinfoilhat mode off.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

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Big Tea
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Re: FIA Thread

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Sieper wrote:
Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:07 pm
tinfoilhat mode on.

Mercedes made a much noise as they can so that in the future "what will mercedes think of it" will be the guiding principle when making decisions. If I don't do that I will get sacked. Seems a very bad principle.

tinfoilhat mode off.
I can go along with that-as long as Mercedes is interchangeable with which ever team is on a roll at the time.
Could be RBR or Ferrari winning 4 consecutive, and 'the powers that be' thinking it is time for a change and how much $h/t flys if they do 'this'.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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Quantum
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Re: FIA Thread

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Sieper wrote:
Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:07 pm
tinfoilhat mode on.

Mercedes made a much noise as they can so that in the future "what will mercedes think of it" will be the guiding principle when making decisions. If I don't do that I will get sacked. Seems a very bad principle.

tinfoilhat mode off.
Nah, don't buy that.
Concessions get found out very quickly inside F1.
Personally think Stuttgart made the order that Wolff obey, Merc had probably the best run of any team in F1 history. If it ends in farce through no fault of their own, let that be on the FIA.
"Interplay of triads"

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Sieper
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Re: FIA Thread

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You actually bring a good point to the table. Mercedes is not just Mercedes. It is Corporate Daimler for one part, but also Wolff himself, if the press it to believed for an equal part, and Ineos as a sponsor/owner for another third. So it might (a very clear might) be that even within Mercedes there is discussion on how to handle situations.

I don’t know if they held back, to me it seems every path to first try and get the title, and later to discredit the winner, has been taken. So it seems Daimler is not very powerfull anymore, or was on board with it.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

Just_a_fan
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Re: FIA Thread

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Sieper wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:31 am

I don’t know if they held back, to me it seems every path to first try and get the title, and later to discredit the winner, has been taken. So it seems Daimler is not very powerfull anymore, or was on board with it.
The team never did that. They publicly congratulated Max for winning the title. Lewis congratulated Max immediately after the race in the interviews. Lewis's father went and personally congratulated Max immediately after the race. This is all on public record, on video, etc.. So, please stop making up alternative histories.

What the team did was argue that the way the end of the race was managed by the RD was wrong. And they were right to do so, as many people in and around the sport said at the time.

But that's all in the past now so let's move on. 8)
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Sieper
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A whole social media campaign has been executed, even with Toto Wolff almost literally in mourning about all that was done to them. Lewis going into retreat and making several postings on his social media account later and then this whole campaign to get Masi fired. I can't open any social media with something about Max being P1 without hundreds of shitpost by british usernames. Luckily there are also lots of british users who do recognize what has happened but still. I think outside of the three positives that you mention, Lewis and Max shaking hands, Lewis' father making a great gesture and Wolff after some months saying that Max was a worthy champion (but still not saying he earned the title) you simply cannot say a campaign wasn't executed as it was. Lewis already started that while still in the race, he did shake hands yes.

This could have all easily been dealt with differently and it serves no purpose, everyone loses including Lewis and his fanbase. We are still suffering the consequences and it will only get worse. Max made no comments on Silverstone 22 about 21 and boom, Lewis puts oil on the fire. We could have moved on as you said, months and months ago.

We can even move on now. But let the campaign then reside. Masi is gone, what more to achieve, nothing.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

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diffuser
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Re: FIA Thread

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Right, move on until we have more facts to talk about. Making comments based on our own personal history or biases in these situations doesn't make what we're projecting right. Just possible scenarios.

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Wouter
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Re: FIA Thread

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:47 am
But that's all in the past now so let's move on. 8)
.
Well, tell that Sir Lewis Hamilton. :wink: :)

Monday 4 July 2022

"Charles did a great job," Hamilton told Sky Sports F1. "What a great battle.

"[He's] a very sensible driver, clearly a lot different to what I experienced last year.

"Around Copse, for example, two of us went through there no problem. But what a battle.

"We had to have the tyre deficit in order to get past him but a really, really amazing weekend."
The Power of Honda!

Just_a_fan
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Re: FIA Thread

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Wouter wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:08 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:47 am
But that's all in the past now so let's move on. 8)
.
Well, tell that Sir Lewis Hamilton. :wink: :)

Monday 4 July 2022

"Charles did a great job," Hamilton told Sky Sports F1. "What a great battle.

"[He's] a very sensible driver, clearly a lot different to what I experienced last year.

"Around Copse, for example, two of us went through there no problem. But what a battle.

"We had to have the tyre deficit in order to get past him but a really, really amazing weekend."
He was correct, it was a different experience from last year. It also referenced Horner's "no one can overtake through Copse".
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

GrizzleBoy
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Re: FIA Thread

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Sieper wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 3:20 pm
A whole social media campaign has been executed, even with Toto Wolff almost literally in mourning about all that was done to them. Lewis going into retreat and making several postings on his social media account later and then this whole campaign to get Masi fired. I can't open any social media with something about Max being P1 without hundreds of shitpost by british usernames. Luckily there are also lots of british users who do recognize what has happened but still. I think outside of the three positives that you mention, Lewis and Max shaking hands, Lewis' father making a great gesture and Wolff after some months saying that Max was a worthy champion (but still not saying he earned the title) you simply cannot say a campaign wasn't executed as it was. Lewis already started that while still in the race, he did shake hands yes.

This could have all easily been dealt with differently and it serves no purpose, everyone loses including Lewis and his fanbase. We are still suffering the consequences and it will only get worse. Max made no comments on Silverstone 22 about 21 and boom, Lewis puts oil on the fire. We could have moved on as you said, months and months ago.

We can even move on now. But let the campaign then reside. Masi is gone, what more to achieve, nothing.
Social media campaign?

Well I suppose its just easier for some fans/media/drivers/team bosses/twitter accounts to watch the end of the Abu Dhabi race and pretend like the race director didn't literally manipulate the race by giving orders that had no other intention other than to put car 33 as close as he could to car 44, even if it meant other drivers races were effectively ended as a result by not also giving them that kind of special treatment, than it is for others.

I mean, maybe you and others thought that:

- denying literally the most statistically successful and one of the most world famous racing drivers on the grid a win that would have literally made significant history while millions and millions watched around the world

- doing so by what is now accepted by the FIA as "human error"

- even though pretty much everyone watching (who's been a fan for at least a few years) knew the safety car procedure was not done correctly

- while the stewards somehow backed up the wrong decision with all the time they had to deliberate after the race

- while the person who made that human error has been broadcast live on TV kissing one team bosses backside during races while giving lots of attitude to others

and expected that, there wouldn't be more than a few people who might have had something to say about that in the press, on TV, on social media etc, then I don't know what to tell you.

I could understand if it wasn't the last lap in the last race of a very exciting season that had high viewership and very high stakes for either winner, for anyone to expect a massive controversy like that to occur and everyone just walk away like they had their memories erased.

But when the referee literally makes up new rules that literally benefit ONE driver on the track and essentially robs other drivers of their ability to also participate in racing on the last lap, and that ONE driver he made new rules for walks away with the WDC while another driver is directly affected by losing the ability to make history in the sport.

Well, people are going to talk about that. A lot. Because USUALLY people don't actually like referees to do that kind of thing in sports.

USUALLY if a referee did something like that in the biggest game/fight/race of the year to decide an undisputed champion, while also having audio available to fans that is easily perceived as bias, you surely would expect a large fan outcry.

I'm more interested as to why you believe that Toto, the fans, the FIA, the broadcast media and tabloid media shouldve just been quiet about it all.

Especially since Lewis literally not saying a single word about it to a soul on the planet for months after congratulating max for his win was also criticised.

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Quantum
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Re: FIA Thread

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Sieper wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 3:20 pm
A whole social media campaign has been executed, even with Toto Wolff almost literally in mourning about all that was done to them.
Literally any team leading the race with a chance of winning the title would not be sitting on their hands after Masi's decision. The image you're portraying is that any Mercedes reaction is unjustified.
That would suggest you to be validating Masi, when his actions where unprecedented in the history of the sport.

If the roles were to be reversed, and Hamilton pitted and Verstappen stayed out, do you expect Red Bull, Verstappen and their fans to accept an unprecedented ruling from Masi which wrecked a season?
At the very least we would have seen the same response from Red Bull.
So it seems very much like the prism of bias is seeping into your post, be that Pro RB/Max or anti Merc/Ham.

That's the amazing thing, benefactors of a bad decision dancing at the plight of the victims of a bad decision. It's almost as if many folk were happier that Hamilton lost than Max won. When you step back, remove the names and liveries, and take the action meted out....I don't see how anyone can call it correct and then object to the team at a loss...objecting.
"Interplay of triads"

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Sieper
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Re: FIA Thread

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Once the decision was taken, fought, and retained they should have quit. But they kept going even after there was zero chance (as the final decision was made). That is just very poor. It serves no purpose anymore.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

basti313
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Re: FIA Thread

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:29 pm
Wouter wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:08 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:47 am
But that's all in the past now so let's move on. 8)
.
Well, tell that Sir Lewis Hamilton. :wink: :)

Monday 4 July 2022

"Charles did a great job," Hamilton told Sky Sports F1. "What a great battle.

"[He's] a very sensible driver, clearly a lot different to what I experienced last year.

"Around Copse, for example, two of us went through there no problem. But what a battle.

"We had to have the tyre deficit in order to get past him but a really, really amazing weekend."
He was correct, it was a different experience from last year. It also referenced Horner's "no one can overtake through Copse".
That is a bit funny, isn't it? We saw good racing between Lec and Ver for multiple races without crashing/touching, or too much running off. Completely different to 2021 where every time someone was off when or forced off when Per, Ver and Ham tried to overtake. Very well taken, good sportsmanship and good media. So suddenly Ham, who is quiet on this, starts praising Lec...ok...

Copse 2022...Ham on the apex, isn't he? So if this is his benchmark, then how about his 2021 position?

I think the 2021 shitshow where Ver and Ham BOTH just ruined the battles was super hard to judge by the FIA. Mostly after not going strictly against driving each other off the track initially.
Completely different game now. Much stricter enforcement of the rules of engagement, more penalties for any dirty moves. They are on a good path and so are the drivers.