FIA Thread

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Shakeman
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Re: FIA Thread

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Zynerji wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:36 pm
As we've discussed in a previous thread, it's about the $. If an all-German lineup is possible, and you can measure the success of the all-French Alpine lineup, it may be a better marketing exercise overall.

Toto has spoken about the billions of marketing dollar value out of F1. Some will not care if they finish 9th in the championship. If the initial hype, and the photographs keep circulating, the math may say that is the optimal strategy for ROI. It would be very interesting to see these numbers.
An all French and all German line-up is irrelevant outside of relatively small national car markets which are shrinking markets and the accelerator has just been pressed on the shrinkage.

Zynerji, you wrote the above quote in another thread. You don't appear to be able to keep a consistent train of thought between threads. So you actually think a team who doesn't care whether they finish 9th or not will actively develop they car and add into the IP pool or do you think it's more likely they'll be leeches and minimise their development spend?

You completely ignored my previous post. If the FIA understood the damage photogrammetry could do to top team participation you'd surely understand why your idea is no different.

There's nothing wrong with having an open IP pool for a racing competition but it wouldn't be F1 and it wouldn't attract current F1 teams for the stated reasons.
Shakeman wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:22 am
...maybe think a bit more about why manufacturers want to be associated with F1 as either a works team or supply engines. F1 rules are written with just enough scope for teams to express their development and engineering prowess over other teams, this is why F1 is not a spec series, the FIA understand this. F1 is just as much about what goes on in the labs and garages as it is about racing on track, I'm surprised you hadn't noticed this while reading this forum!

No sportsperson or teams cares about the 'show'. No boxer walks out to the ring hoping he'll be in a 12 round slugfest, he wants it over in the first round. No tennis player walks out hoping for a 5 set thriller, they want the game dead in 3 sets at 6/0. Every F1 team starts the year hoping to lead the pack round by 2 seconds like Merc did at the beginning of the hybrid era. So the very idea that a team investing 200M in a winning car will have to open up their IP to the whole grid is an absurd notion. No team, and more importantly, no boardroom is going to sanction that. F1 would cease to exist as teams would simply join another racing series which did allow them to demonstrate their engineering prowess and retain their IP which they have invested heavily in. When Merc was leading and lapping the field and publicly saying they hoped others would catch up, privately they would've been thinking the diametric opposite as a multi-year winning streak would've done almost incalculable benefit to the Mercedes brand. This is why teams compete and are prepared to invest such huge sums.

There is a reason why the FIA came down heavily on photogrammetry and laser scanning plagiarism as a means of drastically reducing development costs because they understood this would drive the top teams out of the sport and F1 would no longer be the pinnacle of motorsport, how could it be? There would be no reason to invest millions into the sport when a competitor can get close to your performance with a 100MP camera and a copy of Reality Capture. If you can understand this then surely you understand why your scheme is a non-starter?

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Zynerji
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Re: FIA Thread

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Shakeman wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:08 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:36 pm
As we've discussed in a previous thread, it's about the $. If an all-German lineup is possible, and you can measure the success of the all-French Alpine lineup, it may be a better marketing exercise overall.

Toto has spoken about the billions of marketing dollar value out of F1. Some will not care if they finish 9th in the championship. If the initial hype, and the photographs keep circulating, the math may say that is the optimal strategy for ROI. It would be very interesting to see these numbers.
An all French and all German line-up is irrelevant outside of relatively small national car markets which are shrinking markets and the accelerator has just been pressed on the shrinkage.

Zynerji, you wrote the above quote in another thread. You don't appear to be able to keep a consistent train of thought between threads. So you actually think a team who doesn't care whether they finish 9th or not will actively develop they car and add into the IP pool or do you think it's more likely they'll be leeches and minimise their development spend?

You completely ignored my previous post. If the FIA understood the damage photogrammetry could do to top team participation you'd surely understand why your idea is no different.

There's nothing wrong with having an open IP pool for a racing competition but it wouldn't be F1 and it wouldn't attract current F1 teams for the stated reasons.
Shakeman wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:22 am
...maybe think a bit more about why manufacturers want to be associated with F1 as either a works team or supply engines. F1 rules are written with just enough scope for teams to express their development and engineering prowess over other teams, this is why F1 is not a spec series, the FIA understand this. F1 is just as much about what goes on in the labs and garages as it is about racing on track, I'm surprised you hadn't noticed this while reading this forum!

No sportsperson or teams cares about the 'show'. No boxer walks out to the ring hoping he'll be in a 12 round slugfest, he wants it over in the first round. No tennis player walks out hoping for a 5 set thriller, they want the game dead in 3 sets at 6/0. Every F1 team starts the year hoping to lead the pack round by 2 seconds like Merc did at the beginning of the hybrid era. So the very idea that a team investing 200M in a winning car will have to open up their IP to the whole grid is an absurd notion. No team, and more importantly, no boardroom is going to sanction that. F1 would cease to exist as teams would simply join another racing series which did allow them to demonstrate their engineering prowess and retain their IP which they have invested heavily in. When Merc was leading and lapping the field and publicly saying they hoped others would catch up, privately they would've been thinking the diametric opposite as a multi-year winning streak would've done almost incalculable benefit to the Mercedes brand. This is why teams compete and are prepared to invest such huge sums.

There is a reason why the FIA came down heavily on photogrammetry and laser scanning plagiarism as a means of drastically reducing development costs because they understood this would drive the top teams out of the sport and F1 would no longer be the pinnacle of motorsport, how could it be? There would be no reason to invest millions into the sport when a competitor can get close to your performance with a 100MP camera and a copy of Reality Capture. If you can understand this then surely you understand why your scheme is a non-starter?
I get that you don't understand the full-self balance of the system. I'm thinking of building a mind-map to lay out the metrics involved, but it's hard to balance work/life already with a wife and 4 teen-aged daughters!

johnny comelately
johnny comelately
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Location: Australia

Re: FIA Thread

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The FIA is functioning as an archaic dinosaur with no effective oversight, checks or balances.
It is not fit for purpose.

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Zynerji
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Re: FIA Thread

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Here it comes, folks!

https://cointelegraph.com/news/formula- ... -metaverse

It's almost like they are setting things up exactly as I proposed. 😏 Layer 2 to eventually include software.
Last edited by Zynerji on Thu Oct 13, 2022 7:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Zynerji
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Re: FIA Thread

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Shakeman wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:29 am
Save your valuable time, I fully understand your 'proposal'.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDx5W_oXkAA ... name=small
Same energy...
🙄

I get paid very well for that work. My apologies for not making time to provide it to you for free.

Jolle
Jolle
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Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
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Re: FIA Thread

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Zynerji wrote:
Thu Oct 13, 2022 7:15 pm
Here it comes, folks!

https://cointelegraph.com/news/formula- ... -metaverse

It's almost like they are setting things up exactly as I proposed. 😏 Layer 2 to eventually include software.
lol, don't hold your breath. They trademarked stuff so no one else could use their name in their products. Nothing technical there.

Good chance they also have trademarked "F1 Tabac", "F1 Oil", "F1 power drink", etc etc.

they might do a small series of NFT's which will go unsold because somehow everybody hates progress in F1.

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Zynerji
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Re: FIA Thread

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Jolle wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:08 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Thu Oct 13, 2022 7:15 pm
Here it comes, folks!

https://cointelegraph.com/news/formula- ... -metaverse

It's almost like they are setting things up exactly as I proposed. 😏 Layer 2 to eventually include software.
lol, don't hold your breath. They trademarked stuff so no one else could use their name in their products. Nothing technical there.

Good chance they also have trademarked "F1 Tabac", "F1 Oil", "F1 power drink", etc etc.

they might do a small series of NFT's which will go unsold because somehow everybody hates progress in F1.
The press release specifically mentions Mining. That tells me they are going private chain. After that, all doors open.

They wouldn't mine just for trademarks or NFTs.

200iq would be to use the PoW consensus as there are now millions of high-speed chips in the wild that no longer work for PoS mining.

basti313
basti313
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Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:49 pm

Re: FIA Thread

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I am surprised by the current race director sacking.
For Japan they sacked the first one. Now in the US they basically changed the race result, because the RD did not apply necessary flags???

What is their target? Is Mickey coming back?

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Zynerji
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: FIA Thread

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basti313 wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:23 am
I am surprised by the current race director sacking.
For Japan they sacked the first one. Now in the US they basically changed the race result, because the RD did not apply necessary flags???

What is their target? Is Mickey coming back?
It's time for 4k camera and AI algorithms to police the sport. We have the tech. And no one can argue.

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dans79
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: FIA Thread

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Zynerji wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:26 am
basti313 wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:23 am
I am surprised by the current race director sacking.
For Japan they sacked the first one. Now in the US they basically changed the race result, because the RD did not apply necessary flags???

What is their target? Is Mickey coming back?
It's time for 4k camera and AI algorithms to police the sport. We have the tech. And no one can argue.
what they need is any one with common sense, that isn't afraid to enforce the rules.
191 103 103 7

mendis
mendis
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Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:12 pm

Re: FIA Thread

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Zynerji wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:26 am
basti313 wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:23 am
I am surprised by the current race director sacking.
For Japan they sacked the first one. Now in the US they basically changed the race result, because the RD did not apply necessary flags???

What is their target? Is Mickey coming back?
It's time for 4k camera and AI algorithms to police the sport. We have the tech. And no one can argue.
I agree. Most sports need to evolve faster in adoption of technology and removing human error element.

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Stu
Moderator
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:05 am
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: FIA Thread

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Zynerji wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:26 am
basti313 wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:23 am
I am surprised by the current race director sacking.
For Japan they sacked the first one. Now in the US they basically changed the race result, because the RD did not apply necessary flags???

What is their target? Is Mickey coming back?
It's time for 4k camera and AI algorithms to police the sport. We have the tech. And no one can argue.
I agree, track limits is as easy as jump starts to police with AI (such tech could also be used to auto trigger yellow flags, etc).
But….
I wouldn’t trust the FIA to come up with a testable AI system, they are too knee-jerk, on-the-hoof, which-way-is-the-wind-blowing, etc, etc, to be consistent at anything.
On the other hand…
Fans will always find bias when a decision goes against ‘their’ team, even AI would be subject to such accusations!
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

johnny comelately
johnny comelately
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Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:55 pm
Location: Australia

Re: FIA Thread

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Stu wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:05 am
Zynerji wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:26 am
basti313 wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:23 am
I am surprised by the current race director sacking.
For Japan they sacked the first one. Now in the US they basically changed the race result, because the RD did not apply necessary flags???

What is their target? Is Mickey coming back?
It's time for 4k camera and AI algorithms to police the sport. We have the tech. And no one can argue.
I agree, track limits is as easy as jump starts to police with AI (such tech could also be used to auto trigger yellow flags, etc).
But….
I wouldn’t trust the FIA to come up with a testable AI system, they are too knee-jerk, on-the-hoof, which-way-is-the-wind-blowing, etc, etc, to be consistent at anything.
On the other hand…
Fans will always find bias when a decision goes against ‘their’ team, even AI would be subject to such accusations!
The AI would be hacked...
conspiracy theory number 1a :wink:

MadMax
MadMax
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Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2022 2:23 am

Re: FIA Thread

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mendis wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:40 am
Zynerji wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:26 am
basti313 wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:23 am
I am surprised by the current race director sacking.
For Japan they sacked the first one. Now in the US they basically changed the race result, because the RD did not apply necessary flags???

What is their target? Is Mickey coming back?
It's time for 4k camera and AI algorithms to police the sport. We have the tech. And no one can argue.
I agree. Most sports need to evolve faster in adoption of technology and removing human error element.
Anything designed and made by humans, even AI, will have human failings baked in to it. Humans can't make perfect systems.

mendis
mendis
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Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:12 pm

Re: FIA Thread

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MadMax wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:48 am
mendis wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:40 am
Zynerji wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:26 am


It's time for 4k camera and AI algorithms to police the sport. We have the tech. And no one can argue.
I agree. Most sports need to evolve faster in adoption of technology and removing human error element.
Anything designed and made by humans, even AI, will have human failings baked in to it. Humans can't make perfect systems.
And yet, the world is running on human built systems! What's more, we have even reached Mars with such imperfect systems!