2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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mkay
mkay
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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The W13 finished level with the W12 in terms of the gap to the lead (Austria 2022 vs 2021).

Car again had the best tyre deg, and the performance delta kept decreasing as the stint went on.

rickybobbyf1
rickybobbyf1
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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I agree, great tyre preservation there. I wish they had a bit more mechanical grip to switch the tyres on faster, which would also help on corner exits probably. Hopefully the next updates address that and we shed some drag too. Really frustrating to see Merc with the third best PU, although very reliable🤞🏼!

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ringo
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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mkay wrote:
Sun Jul 10, 2022 4:58 pm
The W13 finished level with the W12 in terms of the gap to the lead (Austria 2022 vs 2021).

Car again had the best tyre deg, and the performance delta kept decreasing as the stint went on.
I think it's just down to the drivers and engineers getting the setup right. From 2020 i have suspected redbull and their driver's ability to get the setup right. Especially on sprint weekends. Max has had a poor record with that in my eyes. Hamilton clearly knows what he is doing. Another race with strong pace. And its not just down to the inherent properties of the car. He is choosing to setup with this bias. Plus whatever he is doing inside the car to close down when everyone else's tyres are worn.
For Sure!!

mkay
mkay
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Toto estimating the true performance gap to be around 3 tenths of a second, per his post-race statement.
But we are missing the two or three tenths to be able to race at the front. We have glimpses of light at the end of the tunnel with the car – then it disappears again, and we need to get on top of that. Today, over a race stint, we looked more competitive than yesterday.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Given the lack of practice time for all competitors, I think it's difficult to judge the true level of each team. If we came to "Styria" next weekend, things would look different yet again.

Also it shouldn't be forgotten that Austria is an outlier due to altitude. Historically, Mercedes have a very good all around car, but was always neutered in Austria.

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Big Tea
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Re: Mercedes W13

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LM10 wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:58 pm
Stu wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:29 pm
RZS10 wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 3:10 pm
Looking at this (unfortunately not perfectly scaled) comparison it is possible that they did not add those bulges etc but that they are a result of widening the tunnels and wrapping the floor around internal components.

https://i.imgur.com/y7nlmyH.png

This is an attempt to visualize it, i drew those lines on the bottom one and then copied the layers to upper one and distorted them to the best of my ability so they fit a few key points ... the end of the edge top right, kinda the same point bottom left where the boat section ends, end of innermost strake top middle, edge of the plank and the line on the right is parallel to the edge of the diffuser

https://i.imgur.com/aWFy1HG.png
That is a significant increase in tunnel volume, this should reduce sensitivity to ride-height and reduce porpoising. If Ferrari are not careful they will become the third team.
I do think that the Merc suspension is the big performance restriction now; more travel would be a real benefit.
Still your opinion after Sunday? :)
They still only had a 50% finishing rate (on the day) 2nd and 3rd would have given them 34. If they do get sorted it is looking good.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

LM10
LM10
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Re: Mercedes W13

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Big Tea wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:15 pm
LM10 wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:58 pm
Stu wrote:
Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:29 pm


That is a significant increase in tunnel volume, this should reduce sensitivity to ride-height and reduce porpoising. If Ferrari are not careful they will become the third team.
I do think that the Merc suspension is the big performance restriction now; more travel would be a real benefit.
Still your opinion after Sunday? :)
They still only had a 50% finishing rate (on the day) 2nd and 3rd would have given them 34. If they do get sorted it is looking good.
You're right, but from what I understood Stu meant the car performance when saying "third team".

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Big Tea
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Re: Mercedes W13

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LM10 wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:23 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:15 pm
LM10 wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:58 pm


Still your opinion after Sunday? :)
They still only had a 50% finishing rate (on the day) 2nd and 3rd would have given them 34. If they do get sorted it is looking good.
You're right, but from what I understood Stu meant the car performance when saying "third team".
Yes. But if Mclaren were firing on all cylinders with both drivers scoring it could be close at year end when DNF's and grid penalties are taken into account.

I have to be honest here and say it is not likely, but each DNF, especially from a good position is still somewhat of a disaster and could cost at season end.

This of course would mean a turn around at Mclaren or Alpine, which is another problem.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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F1Krof
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Re: Mercedes W13

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43s+ from the lead tells a lot IMHO. Clearly their concept isn't working for the top.
Wroom wroom

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W13

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F1Krof wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:41 pm
43s+ from the lead tells a lot IMHO. Clearly their concept isn't working for the top.
Can’t really use that gap from Sunday as an indicator. Hamilton was coming through the field and was on a different strategy to the leaders (2-stopped).

He literally had race-winning deg. and pace in Silverstone.

Concept is absolutely fine. They’re adding downforce and making improvements. Quali was their most competitive of the year (despite Austria being one of the worst tracks for this team even when they were dominant) until the crashes forced major rebuilds and the use of old parts (like George’s less than ideal RW).

I truly think the existing situation from the past 2 weeks signals the exact opposite of your sentiment expressed above.

GrizzleBoy
GrizzleBoy
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Re: Mercedes W13

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Also need to remember that par of that gap came from Ham pitting a few laps before Sainzs VSC and Lec/Ves stopping under VSC so making net gains that way.

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Stu
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Re: Mercedes W13

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LM10 wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:23 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:15 pm
LM10 wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:58 pm


Still your opinion after Sunday? :)
They still only had a 50% finishing rate (on the day) 2nd and 3rd would have given them 34. If they do get sorted it is looking good.
You're right, but from what I understood Stu meant the car performance when saying "third team".
I kind of did mean that, we did see a fabulous performance from Ferrari (until Sainz dropped out), but for whatever reason Verstappen couldn’t keep his tyres alive to challenge. The Mercedes challenge this weekend was significantly blunted by the accidents on Friday which lead to (what looked like) a compromised race set-up. If Mercedes have made the aero step that they seem to have done there are tracks coming up that really could see them mixing with Ferrari & Red Bull.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes W13

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Austria hasn't really been a Mercedes track either. I say this considering that RedBull was able to win in Mercedes dominant years.
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atanatizante
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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There is some new evidence had you are willing to check them out for the reason why both drivers had issues in Q3 ...

In both Q1 and Q2 HAM & RUS were fuelled for some 8-9 laps in order to do some 2 or 3 hot laps bearing in mind that they needed 2 laps to warm up the soft tyres ... then in Q3 the cars were fuelled up for only 4 laps which led to not enough load and a slighter raised car with negative consequences:
- a lower downforce level from the Venturi tunnels and
- light bottoming in high-speed corners something they didn`t get rid of yet ...

All these above-mentioned were in conjunction with the soft tyres that were not enough warmed up thus providing less grip, that`s why HAM was aborting the first hot lap even though he set the fastest S1 time up until then ...

This issue with the warm-up phase it`s just a double-edged sword for having troubles at the starts/restarts and advantages with tyre management but what`s interesting to know is whether is down to the race setup they choose or just down to the stiff suspension they need to set up the car for these new ground effect cars ...
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
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AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Both drivers said they made a mistake. Lewis went in too fast (+10km/h according to Toto), and George too aggressive in the kerb in 10. There's no need to search for elaborate alternate excuses. All cars are dealing with variations in rideheight and bottoming.