2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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harty71
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:08 pm
harty71 wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:00 pm
As for the result not meaning much, what utter hogwash, beating the most successful driver of all time in your first season with the team is a monumental achievement.
Rosberg beet Schumacher 3 years in a row, but that also means nothing without context!

2010 - 142 vs 72
2011 - 89 vs 76
2012 - 93 vs 49
You're forgetting a very important bit of info though, Schumacher had been out of F1 for 3 years when he came back to partner Rosberg, that is kind of a big deal don't you think?

Anyway what's with the strawman and what is it's relevance? Rosberg was the better driver than Schumacher at that point, I'm not sure what you're getting at?

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Stu
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Get back on topic, this is the 2022 team thread. You all know better.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

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pursue_one's
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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James Vowles confirming that it was Lewis sacrificing his own performance to help development.


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atanatizante
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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How much is this video a reliable source quoting Toto after seeing the wind tunnel W14 model that the new car looks the same on the outside but from the underside (floor, rear axle, rear suspension and so on) it`s entirely a new car :

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chrisc90
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Didn’t they sort most of their suspension issues though? There was next to no porpoising later on in the season. I’d be surprised if it was all suspension causing the deficit to the others. I’m sure there was data over race weekends where merc were actually pretty fast/on par with the others during cornering speeds
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

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atanatizante
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Shovlin is saying in the below article that the zero-pod concept wasn`t the W13`s main design issue, which confirms what is speculated in the above post video telling us via Toto that W14 will sport the same no-pods design!

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... /10409516/
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
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atanatizante
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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chrisc90 wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:21 pm
Didn’t they sort most of their suspension issues though? There was next to no porpoising later on in the season. I’d be surprised if it was all suspension causing the deficit to the others. I’m sure there was data over race weekends where merc were actually pretty fast/on par with the others during cornering speeds
According to Toto, they opted back in October last year to run the W13 car as low as possible in order to reach the top DF levels they were hoping to achieve, according to their simulations. Thus they needed low suspension travel both for running with a lower ride height and also for assuring a stable platform when running through the kerbs in the corners (although affecting them when they were running over the bumps). I think that they`ll adopt the RB18`s double rate spring solution with the W14, had I`m not wrong, something that Driver61 better described in a video a month ago ...
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chrisc90
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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I can’t see how the suspension will stop their straight line speed deficit.
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

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dans79
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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chrisc90 wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:29 pm
I can’t see how the suspension will stop their straight line speed deficit.
They designed the car around the concept of running as low as possible.

That lead to couple of things.
  • a simple floor edge, because once you get low you can use simple structures to seal the floor.
  • everything related to the tunnels and defusser was designed for running close to the ground (this has a knock on effect for everything in close proximity).
  • a suspension system optimized mechanical and aerodynamically for running low to the ground.
When the concept didn't work, they had to implement a sting of marginal fixes, that each came with consequences.

first and foremost they had to raise the ride height. when they did that, they lost downforce from the underside of the car as a whole. To try and limit the loss of df from the floor they had to develop more complex mechanisms of sealing the floor edge.

To gain back downforce, and probably to help aerodynamically balance the car, they had to generate more df than they originally planned to from the wings. hence, why they ran such a high df rear wing (and got more drag as a consequence) all year compared to their competitors.

by raising the ride height, they most likely pushed the suspension system into a smaller section of it's design envelope. on some weekends it might have even been on the verge of being out (or was out at certain points in the lap) of its envelope. This has can cause several less than ideal mechanical issues. It can also cause negative aero effects, because the teams take into account what wishbones & push/pull rods to the air flow.
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jordanb
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:07 pm
chrisc90 wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:29 pm
I can’t see how the suspension will stop their straight line speed deficit.
They designed the car around the concept of running as low as possible.

That lead to couple of things.
  • a simple floor edge, because once you get low you can use simple structures to seal the floor.
  • everything related to the tunnels and defusser was designed for running close to the ground (this has a knock on effect for everything in close proximity).
  • a suspension system optimized mechanical and aerodynamically for running low to the ground.
When the concept didn't work, they had to implement a sting of marginal fixes, that each came with consequences.

first and foremost they had to raise the ride height. when they did that, they lost downforce from the underside of the car as a whole. To try and limit the loss of df from the floor they had to develop more complex mechanisms of sealing the floor edge.

To gain back downforce, and probably to help aerodynamically balance the car, they had to generate more df than they originally planned to from the wings. hence, why they ran such a high df rear wing (and got more drag as a consequence) all year compared to their competitors.

by raising the ride height, they most likely pushed the suspension system into a smaller section of it's design envelope. on some weekends it might have even been on the verge of being out (or was out at certain points in the lap) of its envelope. This has can cause several less than ideal mechanical issues. It can also cause negative aero effects, because the teams take into account what wishbones & push/pull rods to the air flow.
If I understand correctly, you are alluding to a aero concept change for Mercedes with a new suspension where the car has a raised ride height with a new suspension that can aid ride height alteration on straight with more vertical travel.

If so, a few things. Mercedes have always ran cars with lower ride height and have preferred to maintain aero balance with a stiffer suspension. It's unlike Redbull who run the car higher and squat back on straights to reduce drag. This would become a necessity if the new car is going to run higher. The other thing is, Mercedes aren't known to create high volume under the floor with raised floor without flow seperation, something they tried in the past and gave up. Their current car generates high df at lowest possible ride height, which has been the preferred modus operandi. It also necessitates strong floor edge vortices to effectively seal the floor and in the absence of barge boards and tightened up floor edge specifications for 2023, this is going to be another interesting challenge.

If they are indeed going higher ride height route, then it's a concept change where they have to manage things they have not done before.

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dans79
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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jordanb wrote:
Sat Dec 10, 2022 1:42 am
If I understand correctly, you are alluding to a aero concept change for Mercedes with a new suspension where the car has a raised ride height with a new suspension that can aid ride height alteration on straight with more vertical travel.

No I'm talking about what they did to this years car to try and maximize the the performance they could get out of it.

for 2023 I think they will have the same general concept, lower ride height than their competition, and zero side pods.

I think what we will see is something like the following.
  • tweaks the the suspension to run slightly higher, and maybe a little softer.
  • tweaks to the sidepods, to allow for more flexibility when it come the tunnels and floor fence sizing and placement.
  • teaks to the transmission and coke bottle area to allow for changes to the diffuser size and shape.
  • behind the scenes the above probably means a completely redesigned monocoque.
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mrluke
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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The other part is in previous years on the straights they have choked the underfloor flow to dramatically lower drag. With the car being designed to run so low to the ground it must make this difficult to achieve. Maybe with RBRs higher ride height they've still been able to incorporate something similar hence their higher top speeds.

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wogx
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Mercedes signs Schumacher as F1 reserve driver for 2023

Mercedes has announced the signing of Mick Schumacher as its Formula 1 reserve driver for the 2023 season.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... /10411676/

f1jcw
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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wogx wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 6:10 pm
Mercedes signs Schumacher as F1 reserve driver for 2023

Mercedes has announced the signing of Mick Schumacher as its Formula 1 reserve driver for the 2023 season.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... /10411676/
Makes good marketing.

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De Jokke
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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If the W14 is also another dog, then Merc has started the road to downfall (loosing key personnel to rbr, w13, signing Mick,...).

ps: I wonder what will happen to Elliot if W14 turns out to be a dud.
Mercedes AMG + Hamilton => dreamteam!
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