I’m not sure (I will check), but I think Mercedes didn’t use a flat-plane crank in their 180 degree V12, which affected the firing order (for some reason I remember this from the build-up to the season that year - I didn’t ‘waste’ my evening’s reading Motoring News, Autosportivo, Motorsport and the like, it seems!!). However, I do get your point. The ‘flat’ engines that you describe (a separate throw per cylinder) are classical ‘boxers’ and shake like worried dog when running. A flat-plane crank (Ferrari) cures this by operating the banks as 2x cylinder engines with a common crank, but Mercedes we’re doing something different. If I could only remember the engine ‘type’ that the used as a name.Tommy Cookers wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:25 pmIMO and all that ....Stu wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:41 pmAnd the early/mid-nineties 3.5l Group C Mercedes was a 180 degree V12.
A ‘flat-12’ has a different firing order to a V12.
180 degree V12 is just a name for a flat 12 - because every flat 12 every made had 6 crank throws (like a V12)
people started calling it a 180 degree V12 when Lauda won everything
a flat twin has 2 crank throws
a flat 4 has 4 crank throws
a flat 6 has 6 crank throws
a flat 8 has 8 crank throws (unless it's a Tecno)
the above if having respectively 1, 2, 3 or 4 throws would have eg a vibration issue
a flat 12 with 6 throws doesn't
a fellow worker said that horizontally-opposed meant 2 crankshafts and 2 pistons h-o in each cylinder
he having driven such (a 32000 hp Doxford)
hey - how to get on with the new mod !!
I was about to say that a heat-dilution NA engine seems unwise ... but ....
a heat-dilution NA V10 seems less unwise that a heat-dilution NA V12
(h-d meaning design around running always on extreme lean mixture)
Apologies, bit of a faux-pas.
all the V10s had 5-plane cranks
Ferrari's flat 12 engines were not actually "boxer" (as explained),
Another technical issue is that boxer engines must run offset cylinders due to design,saviour stivala wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:48 pmOn my part saying a ‘’boxer – opposed piston’’ should have really read ‘’ boxer – opposed cylinder’’ or better still a ‘’boxer – horizontally opposed cylinder’’. In any case all three means all pistons will have their own crankpin. While all ‘’180 degree flat engines’’ each pair of pistons share one crankpin.
Really, so you know more about it than Subaru?saviour stivala wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:12 amThere is no known racing ‘flat 12’ engine ever made in true ‘boxer’ configuration (12 pin crankshaft), and the motori moderni designed 3.5l flat 12 engine made for Subaru was one of them. A fork-and-blade con-rod design serving a pair of cylinders in opposed ‘flat’ or in V-configuration will be sharing the same crank-pin, which in a 12 cylinder engine the crankshaft will be a six-pin crank, this design chose will eliminate the opposed pair of cylinder offset necessitated by a set of two opposed cylinder con-rods sharing the same crank-pin side-by-side,
one might think that ....