2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Sieper]

There are still many options with the engine situation, Honda returns in full, RBPT rebrand, real own Porsche engine. Everything stays as is and Redbull remains an independent team. They are building the infrastructure for that. I read somewhere Sauber-AUDI could happen. Geographically that makes sense to me, and then Red Bull Porsche?

The rumour mill has died down a bit. I guess off season we will hear more.

[Stu]

What they seem to have done is start an entirely new company (RBPR2026), so as to prepare for the new engine regulations (a clever move - it prevents transfer of Honda IP and allows for a new engine partner).

[organic]

RB are building a roadcar - Newey designed of course

https://www.redbulladvancedtechnologies ... -the-rb17/

Adrian Newey commented: “The RB17 distills everything we know about creating championship-winning Formula One cars into a package that delivers extreme levels of performance in a two-seat track car. Driven by our passion for performance at every level, the RB17 pushes design and technical boundaries far beyond what has been previously available to enthusiasts and collectors.”

Powered by a V8 hybrid engine developing over 1,100bhp, the RB17 takes its inspiration – and name – from the cars that Red Bull Racing has campaigned in the world’s most demanding and technically advanced motorsport series. Designed around a carbon-composite tub, the RB17 features the most advanced ground effect package available in a series production car. Full technical details for the RB17 will be released in due course.

Another ground effect car designed by Newey. More relevant knowledge gained outside of the budget cap perhaps... Seems like this is a very important loophole that F1 should look at

[Sieper]

Eeey? Ferrari, Mclaren, Mercedes, Aston Martin, all should not be allowed to produce sportscars anymore. A loophole you say?

[organic]

Eeey? Ferrari, Mclaren, Mercedes, Aston Martin, all should not be allowed to produce sportscars anymore. A loophole you say?

Well just look at RB's floor and consider they're the ones developing ground effect road cars on the side. Wouldn't be shocked to see all of the teams you mention follow RB's lead in this respect if the formula keeps ground effect around

I'm more talking about a loophole in terms of cfd/wind tunnel limitation

[aMessageToCharlie]

Not necessarily a bad thing IMO. It's an incentive for manufacturers to make F1 tech road relevant.

[Sieper]

I believe that is one of the main points F1 always strived for, road relevance.

RB17, the F1 car that got skipped (replaced) by the 16B, cheeky

I also believe Newey was not happy with the way Aston Martin went with the Valkyrie, way too heavy, too big of an engine. Curious to see what he will come up with.

[ringo]

I believe that is one of the main points F1 always strived for, road relevance.

RB17, the F1 car that got skipped (replaced) by the 16B, cheeky

I also believe Newey was not happy with the way Aston Martin went with the Valkyrie, way too heavy, too big of an engine. Curious to see what he will come up with.

A V12 will always be a better experience. The Valkyrie is what you would call a heavy car by any means, and I feel there is a point after which whoever is buying these cars wont care about how much fast they are than the other F-1 inspired hyper car. The driving experience is what counts and the V12 has a huge advantage there.

Anyhow so as to not go off topic, that V8 hybrid could also be an outlet to do engine development for 2026.

[Sieper]

To continue still (totally) off topic (sorry mods). The Valkyrie is not heavy by most standards indeed but it was not what Newey was aiming at, Son of Valkyrie comes closer.

For me personally I will always prefer the lighter sportscar, with power, but weight balanced to the chassis. I do not care about going super fast, I never enjoyed that at all, especially on my motorbike, with the helmet pushed onto the nose but also on the autobahn with my 5 series. Fun for a short while (overtaking a lorry with more than 150kmh speed difference is an outerworld experience (3 lane highway) but ultimately I care about cornering, agility. I am lucky to live in a place with a lot of river dikes (almost no traffic, no stoplights, twist and turns).

But I think I get what you mean, a friend of mine has a 911 and and RS6 and that 911 (the standard one) always feels so slow it is almost a disappointment.

And indeed, a smart thing to do to develop a supersportscar with some relevance to F1 (or the other way around) if only to keep Newey inspired.

[basti313]

I believe that is one of the main points F1 always strived for, road relevance.

RB17, the F1 car that got skipped (replaced) by the 16B, cheeky

I also believe Newey was not happy with the way Aston Martin went with the Valkyrie, way too heavy, too big of an engine. Curious to see what he will come up with.

A V12 will always be a better experience. The Valkyrie is what you would call a heavy car by any means, and I feel there is a point after which whoever is buying these cars wont care about how much fast they are than the other F-1 inspired hyper car. The driving experience is what counts and the V12 has a huge advantage there.

Anyhow so as to not go off topic, that V8 hybrid could also be an outlet to do engine development for 2026.

I was never impressed by a V12. Especially as most come with a heavy car...600 Mercs...BMW 850s...rather boring. The BMW V10 against these V12....always the V10. Also the AMG 65 lost in drivability and "fun" against the 55 in my point of view.
Today the simply issue is that you need a modern engine as modern engines are better. There is no modern V12 on the market since AMG stopped the 65, right? And again...even if you find a V8 with turbo, it is heavy. If you want to go fast round a track you end up at something with 6 cylinders with some turbochargers if you want a good performing engine without 100kg overweight.

Which brings us to this thread: Porsche has engines that are not suitable for track series without a BOP, but for a supercar...excellent.

Regarding development:
No, there is simply no relevance you test an F1 engine on the dyno, then you put it into the car and see how it handles the Gs. No relevant test in another car possible.

[Wouter]

[west52keep64]

What a sad state of affairs. They had to terminate that factory employee this time last year too, and now the whole thing with Piquet. Red Bull need to get their house in order.

[hollus]

It for sure is a link to a link, hardly the Reb Bull team’s own control sphere. That won’t stop some journos or the internet rollercoeaster, though.

But maybe this thread is not the best place to discuss this Piquet incident?

[Chuckjr]

This situation with Red Bull and their incredible floor reminds me of when Merc built an unbeatable engine — when it was turned down — in 2014. I think Newey has taken the field to school like Merc did in 2014. Back in 2014 I wondered how anyone was going to beat Merc with such an enormous jump in power. Teams all found out the hard way it would be near impossible to out-engineer or copy their design quickly. With the limited testing, tokens, and engine count per year w/ severe penalties, it’s like now whereby budgets simply don’t allow teams to financially muscle a solution. Like 2014, the other teams are now just starting to figure and work with the aero advantages this car is already employing — and they have updates on the way for Silverstone just like Merc did as they flogged the field in 2014.

Obviously the top of the car is working in conjunction with the floor, which makes this even more like the 2014 Merc in complexities which tied into the fundamentals of the car. This isn’t just a front wing, rear diffuser, rear wing, trick pods, or Salvador Dalì floor, it’s ALL of those and then some.

In my experience watching this sport, it does not bode well for teams that are trying to catch up, and the advantage typically lasts for years. With the budget as it is now, teams like Merc will have to fundamentally change their aero philosophy which could only take place over a winter. But I doubt they have the humility to swallow it on their design, and resort to copying. They indeed are in a pickle.

Anyway, hats off to Red Bull and Newey. My gut tells me they are about to twist the knife with updates. I hope Ferrari can keep up, and make this a close championship, but it will be tough as they’ve penalties on the way.

[Bill]

lets not exaggerate Newey or Rbr for that matter ferrari still have the faster car .Newey according to him didnt work of the aerodynamics he worked on the suspension element so he lead a group of talented individual who do great work and deserve credits.where would Rbr be if they were underpowered like merc up until barcelona due to relibility or if they used a ferrari that keeps breaking up.what if Max was not there lead driver but Gasly or perez the picture would look different.success is a cumulation of many people at redbull and sakura not just one guy.