2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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organic
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:13 pm
organic wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:10 pm
https://honda.racing/rbr-sat/post/honda ... wer-trains

Excellent news

Honda extend their technical support of the power unit to 2025

https://www.redbullpowertrains.com/int- ... nt=Article
I thought this was confirmed a long time ago?
Until now, technical support was only due to be continued to 2023. Now it will be delivered until the new regulations. Means that the quality of the trackside support/maintenance will remain as exemplary as it has been - no potential teething problems

Snorked
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Honda made an offer to buy the team according to AMuS' Michael Schmidt:

"Honda has made an offer to Red Bull [2026], which I’ve heard isn‘t that unattractive either. But now Honda also saw what Porsche is planning at Red Bull (Porsche buying 50%). I think some at Red Bull believe that the Morocco leak was done on purpose."

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -f1-video/

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Big Tea
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Snorked wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:24 am
Honda made an offer to buy the team according to AMuS' Michael Schmidt:

"Honda has made an offer to Red Bull [2026], which I’ve heard isn‘t that unattractive either. But now Honda also saw what Porsche is planning at Red Bull (Porsche buying 50%). I think some at Red Bull believe that the Morocco leak was done on purpose."

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -f1-video/
AS I said at the time, because it seemed strange to me, the article I read said Porsche were buying in 50% of -Red Bull Technology-, Not Red Bull Racing or Red Bull F1 Team or Power Trains.
Is there more to this than meets the eye?
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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ME4ME
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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A complete take-over is in my opinion much less likely than a 50-50% ownership / cooperation.

Why on earth would Red Bull want to sell RBR and RBT. It's their marketing gold mine.

They are winning races, championships and thus get tons of media coverage. They also have one of the most popular/marketable drivers in F1. They are also among the best, which is always good to capture the attention from new fans (such as casual Netflix viewers). Red Bull gets a massive amount of marketing out of being in F1.

Also at least for the race team, there now is a budget cap so spending goes way down. (Yes excess funds might be routed towards AT, RBPT, Verstappens contract).

There is really no reason not to continue for Red Bull. No reason to sell.

The only thing they might need or benefit from is a partnership for PU-development. The RBPT project is still young.

So even if Honda wants to buy, I don't think Red Bull wants to sell.
Selling 50% of the racing team or RBT to Porsche surely must come with an incredible sum of money and commitment from Porsche. Also I think it's simply a de-risking strategy from Red Bull, making sure that the 2026 PU isn't uncompetitive. If they lack any resources or expertise at RBPT they can tap into the Porsche organization to help them out.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ME4ME wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 12:08 pm
A complete take-over is in my opinion much less likely than a 50-50% ownership / cooperation.

Why on earth would Red Bull want to sell RBR and RBT. It's their marketing gold mine.

They are winning races, championships and thus get tons of media coverage. They also have one of the most popular/marketable drivers in F1. They are also among the best, which is always good to capture the attention from new fans (such as casual Netflix viewers). Red Bull gets a massive amount of marketing out of being in F1.

Also at least for the race team, there now is a budget cap so spending goes way down. (Yes excess funds might be routed towards AT, RBPT, Verstappens contract).

There is really no reason not to continue for Red Bull. No reason to sell.

The only thing they might need or benefit from is a partnership for PU-development. The RBPT project is still young.

So even if Honda wants to buy, I don't think Red Bull wants to sell.
Selling 50% of the racing team or RBT to Porsche surely must come with an incredible sum of money and commitment from Porsche. Also I think it's simply a de-risking strategy from Red Bull, making sure that the 2026 PU isn't uncompetitive. If they lack any resources or expertise at RBPT they can tap into the Porsche organization to help them out.
Thats if it stays as it is. Are they different enough entities to split the team and RBRT off and still co-operate with an engine project including a F1 engine or not. How many technology's could be used on a sports roadster or in other series without encroaching on the F1 team or Power Trains at all ?
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

Sofa King
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Marko needs to cut Perez some slack. It’s not clear if Max would have won without Perez giving Max an easy pass on the first lap after Perez had a better start, and then on 41 when Perez almost stopped to keep Max in front while blocking Russell. Not clear if Max would have gotten P1 without Perez and it’s likely Perez lost a podium as a result of the two incidents
Sieper wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:29 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:50 pm
Amazing job by Max and the team! Such amazing car control to collect himself after the spin. Car was amazing, as was the PU.
And Perez was right there at the best moment, otherwise he would have gotten behind Russell likely.

Edax
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Sofa King wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:52 pm
Marko needs to cut Perez some slack. It’s not clear if Max would have won without Perez giving Max an easy pass on the first lap after Perez had a better start, and then on 41 when Perez almost stopped to keep Max in front while blocking Russell. Not clear if Max would have gotten P1 without Perez and it’s likely Perez lost a podium as a result of the two incidents
Sieper wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:29 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:50 pm
Amazing job by Max and the team! Such amazing car control to collect himself after the spin. Car was amazing, as was the PU.
And Perez was right there at the best moment, otherwise he would have gotten behind Russell likely.
Fully agree. He deserves quite a lot of credit for his actions. But I think that if things continuing like this with Ves, RB may actually start helping PER to claim second in the championship snd secure the WCC.

cplchanb
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Big Tea wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 12:14 pm
ME4ME wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 12:08 pm
A complete take-over is in my opinion much less likely than a 50-50% ownership / cooperation.

Why on earth would Red Bull want to sell RBR and RBT. It's their marketing gold mine.

They are winning races, championships and thus get tons of media coverage. They also have one of the most popular/marketable drivers in F1. They are also among the best, which is always good to capture the attention from new fans (such as casual Netflix viewers). Red Bull gets a massive amount of marketing out of being in F1.

Also at least for the race team, there now is a budget cap so spending goes way down. (Yes excess funds might be routed towards AT, RBPT, Verstappens contract).

There is really no reason not to continue for Red Bull. No reason to sell.

The only thing they might need or benefit from is a partnership for PU-development. The RBPT project is still young.

So even if Honda wants to buy, I don't think Red Bull wants to sell.
Selling 50% of the racing team or RBT to Porsche surely must come with an incredible sum of money and commitment from Porsche. Also I think it's simply a de-risking strategy from Red Bull, making sure that the 2026 PU isn't uncompetitive. If they lack any resources or expertise at RBPT they can tap into the Porsche organization to help them out.
Thats if it stays as it is. Are they different enough entities to split the team and RBRT off and still co-operate with an engine project including a F1 engine or not. How many technology's could be used on a sports roadster or in other series without encroaching on the F1 team or Power Trains at all ?
Thus is getting extra spicy... they went from shock exit last year to "we won so we'll stick around in the background until transition is complete" to "let's stay around until the new engines" and now "we need to buy out red bull and become a true works team again"... seems like the folks at Honda just can't make up their minds... or their minds shift and flow with the tides ans seasons.....

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Big Tea
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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cplchanb wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:56 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 12:14 pm
ME4ME wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 12:08 pm
A complete take-over is in my opinion much less likely than a 50-50% ownership / cooperation.

Why on earth would Red Bull want to sell RBR and RBT. It's their marketing gold mine.

They are winning races, championships and thus get tons of media coverage. They also have one of the most popular/marketable drivers in F1. They are also among the best, which is always good to capture the attention from new fans (such as casual Netflix viewers). Red Bull gets a massive amount of marketing out of being in F1.

Also at least for the race team, there now is a budget cap so spending goes way down. (Yes excess funds might be routed towards AT, RBPT, Verstappens contract).

There is really no reason not to continue for Red Bull. No reason to sell.

The only thing they might need or benefit from is a partnership for PU-development. The RBPT project is still young.

So even if Honda wants to buy, I don't think Red Bull wants to sell.
Selling 50% of the racing team or RBT to Porsche surely must come with an incredible sum of money and commitment from Porsche. Also I think it's simply a de-risking strategy from Red Bull, making sure that the 2026 PU isn't uncompetitive. If they lack any resources or expertise at RBPT they can tap into the Porsche organization to help them out.
Thats if it stays as it is. Are they different enough entities to split the team and RBRT off and still co-operate with an engine project including a F1 engine or not. How many technology's could be used on a sports roadster or in other series without encroaching on the F1 team or Power Trains at all ?
Thus is getting extra spicy... they went from shock exit last year to "we won so we'll stick around in the background until transition is complete" to "let's stay around until the new engines" and now "we need to buy out red bull and become a true works team again"... seems like the folks at Honda just can't make up their minds... or their minds shift and flow with the tides ans seasons.....
They have an international board now, not one guy who says 'this is what we'll do'

Dont know how often boards change, but they take advice from accountants not racers
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

wesley123
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ME4ME wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 12:08 pm
A complete take-over is in my opinion much less likely than a 50-50% ownership / cooperation.

Why on earth would Red Bull want to sell RBR and RBT. It's their marketing gold mine.

They are winning races, championships and thus get tons of media coverage. They also have one of the most popular/marketable drivers in F1. They are also among the best, which is always good to capture the attention from new fans (such as casual Netflix viewers). Red Bull gets a massive amount of marketing out of being in F1.
Running an F1 team is a money pit. If Red Bull were to just sponsor this team instead of being the owner they will see the same coverage, without paying for all the overhead in facilities etc. The sale might actually benefit the Red Bull marketing machine.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

AR3-GP
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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wesley123 wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 7:11 pm
ME4ME wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 12:08 pm
A complete take-over is in my opinion much less likely than a 50-50% ownership / cooperation.

Why on earth would Red Bull want to sell RBR and RBT. It's their marketing gold mine.

They are winning races, championships and thus get tons of media coverage. They also have one of the most popular/marketable drivers in F1. They are also among the best, which is always good to capture the attention from new fans (such as casual Netflix viewers). Red Bull gets a massive amount of marketing out of being in F1.
Running an F1 team is a money pit. If Red Bull were to just sponsor this team instead of being the owner they will see the same coverage, without paying for all the overhead in facilities etc. The sale might actually benefit the Red Bull marketing machine.
But as a "sponsor" you now have to compete with other bidding sponsors.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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wesley123 wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 7:11 pm
ME4ME wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 12:08 pm
A complete take-over is in my opinion much less likely than a 50-50% ownership / cooperation.

Why on earth would Red Bull want to sell RBR and RBT. It's their marketing gold mine.

They are winning races, championships and thus get tons of media coverage. They also have one of the most popular/marketable drivers in F1. They are also among the best, which is always good to capture the attention from new fans (such as casual Netflix viewers). Red Bull gets a massive amount of marketing out of being in F1.
Running an F1 team is a money pit. If Red Bull were to just sponsor this team instead of being the owner they will see the same coverage, without paying for all the overhead in facilities etc. The sale might actually benefit the Red Bull marketing machine.
It isn't though. It's 150 million a season + an engine contract+cap ex. If you do well in the championship it's even cost positive.

wesley123
wesley123
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 7:22 pm
It isn't though. It's 150 million a season + an engine contract+cap ex. If you do well in the championship it's even cost positive.
Sure, if you don't spend any cost on facilities or anything that doesn't encompass the budget cap.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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ME4ME
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Red Bull was a sponsor of several teams before they bought there own, and then another.

It has been reported serval times in the hybrid era that Mercedes' total domination of the championship earned them a billion dollar worth of media exposure annually.

I think they are pretty happy at Red Bull and are just fortifying their place at the top in F1.

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Zynerji
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ME4ME wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:53 pm
Red Bull was a sponsor of several teams before they bought there own, and then another.

It has been reported serval times in the hybrid era that Mercedes' total domination of the championship earned them a billion dollar worth of media exposure annually.

I think they are pretty happy at Red Bull and are just fortifying their place at the top in F1.
Pulling the trigger on RBPT sealed that sentiment for me.

One would think that RB would have offered Honda any deal they offered Porsche if they thought Honda might actually be interested. I mean, the engines since 2020 have been amazing, and the cultures had the proper bridges in place.

Other than the fact that Audi (VW) could have paid 1 year's r&d budget (3 billion-ish) for the sum total of RBT's tech, and are 50% owner of a proven winner, it simply doesn't make sense to go through the teething problems of a new partner. It's a fully-functioning, symbyot now. Why change that?

It could be an odd situation come late-season 2025...😌