2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Revs84
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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dxpetrov wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:05 am
Revs84 wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:43 pm
Remember the Suzuka specials from Honda?

I've been increasingly wondering whether the 5th engine is meant to serve this purpose. This is the last race before Suzuka in which they would be able to add a new ICE to the pool.

Red Bull have been using Honda engines since 2019 and due to covid have missed the last 2 races. In 2019 Leclerc had also torpedoed into Verstappen on the first lap causing him to DNF.

So given Honda also sponsors the Suzuka event, I'm sure they'll be extremely keen to finally get that win on home soil! :)
And they decided to do that because the current car is struggling to lap everyone in the race and it's quite unknown who would win it at the end?! Bollocks.
Calm down mate, no one is saying it's a fact :)

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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That is what i meant. It cannot be or have anything special than the others used before it.

Revs84
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Indeed but with an extra ICE they can squeeze more life out of it. Like they did back in Austria 2019. Not that they really need it, but I'm sure they will do everything to finally secure a win in Suzuka.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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What they Really Really do NOT want is an engine relater DNF at HQ. More so than a good result.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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ispano6
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Revs84 wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:40 am
dxpetrov wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:05 am
Revs84 wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:43 pm
Remember the Suzuka specials from Honda?

I've been increasingly wondering whether the 5th engine is meant to serve this purpose. This is the last race before Suzuka in which they would be able to add a new ICE to the pool.

Red Bull have been using Honda engines since 2019 and due to covid have missed the last 2 races. In 2019 Leclerc had also torpedoed into Verstappen on the first lap causing him to DNF.

So given Honda also sponsors the Suzuka event, I'm sure they'll be extremely keen to finally get that win on home soil! :)
And they decided to do that because the current car is struggling to lap everyone in the race and it's quite unknown who would win it at the end?! Bollocks.
Calm down mate, no one is saying it's a fact :)
I was track-side during the 2019 race when Max was taken out and it certainly was infuriating ( I do however have fond memories of the race weekend since I featured in the Official F1 FP1 recap video). I don't think Max would have won that race since he didn't have the pace to match the Mercs and given the windy conditions after the typhoon that had just swept by. Albon was a distant 4th and I believe that was the one race where he equaled Max's qualifying time. I do believe that Honda will want to turn it up for this home race and it would be fitting for Max to clinch the WDC there. It's a shame that there won't be a larger Honda presence on the livery, but then again maybe there will be...

If Honda had suggested to Red Bull to take the engine penalty in Monza there probably is a good reason behind making that move for the sake of reliability and performance in the upcoming races. It would be great for Max to clinch it by Suzuka and give Checo a car he can win with in Mexico.

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Revs84 wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:53 am
Indeed but with an extra ICE they can squeeze more life out of it. Like they did back in Austria 2019. Not that they really need it, but I'm sure they will do everything to finally secure a win in Suzuka.
Indeed, introducing a new engine (with some luck) there will always be more life into it than the last one that have been used. And also (again with some luck) it can be pushed a bit harder being it is on its life start. It is the same for all four makes on the grid.

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Wouter
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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The Power of Honda!

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organic
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ispano6 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:29 am
Revs84 wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:40 am
dxpetrov wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:05 am

And they decided to do that because the current car is struggling to lap everyone in the race and it's quite unknown who would win it at the end?! Bollocks.
Calm down mate, no one is saying it's a fact :)
I was track-side during the 2019 race when Max was taken out and it certainly was infuriating ( I do however have fond memories of the race weekend since I featured in the Official F1 FP1 recap video). I don't think Max would have won that race since he didn't have the pace to match the Mercs and given the windy conditions after the typhoon that had just swept by. Albon was a distant 4th and I believe that was the one race where he equaled Max's qualifying time. I do believe that Honda will want to turn it up for this home race and it would be fitting for Max to clinch the WDC there. It's a shame that there won't be a larger Honda presence on the livery, but then again maybe there will be...

If Honda had suggested to Red Bull to take the engine penalty in Monza there probably is a good reason behind making that move for the sake of reliability and performance in the upcoming races. It would be great for Max to clinch it by Suzuka and give Checo a car he can win with in Mexico.
With recent performances I'm not sure anything could guarantee Checo being able to get to 2nd at Mexico (to be let through to 1st); a huge car advantage would be required like Spa or multiple retirements, and Mexico really doesn't look like a track that will suit the RB18 at all. Just like last year, the narratives of Checo maybe winning Mexico will have evaporated by Sunday morning of the race weekend. Last year the RB16B could win Mexico by 20 seconds and Checo was third.. think if max has a chance to win mexico, that's what the team will get behind

Aesop
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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organic wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:09 am
think if max has a chance to win mexico, that's what the team will get behind
I think it's the other way around. If Checo has a chance to win Mexico, the team will support him. Maybe even Max is prepared to let him pass. But only if he's close to the performance level of Max. They won't ask Max to hit the brakes so Checo can make up 20 seconds.

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chrisc90
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Could be interesting when max wins the title and helps checo to win 2nd place if he has the pace. Or I wonder if max wants the most wins in a season ‘award’
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

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ispano6
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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organic wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:09 am
With recent performances I'm not sure anything could guarantee Checo being able to get to 2nd at Mexico (to be let through to 1st); a huge car advantage would be required like Spa or multiple retirements, and Mexico really doesn't look like a track that will suit the RB18 at all. Just like last year, the narratives of Checo maybe winning Mexico will have evaporated by Sunday morning of the race weekend. Last year the RB16B could win Mexico by 20 seconds and Checo was third.. think if max has a chance to win mexico, that's what the team will get behind
With the way things are now that's the likely outcome I agree. However, Mexico is 4 races away, and if somehow max manages to win Singapore, Suzuka, and COTA, he'll have broken the 13 wins in a season record. But in order to equal the 9 wins in a row record he'll have to win Mexico and then Brazil to break it. I think that would be a bit of a stretch but certainly possible. Checo wasn't that far off in SPA and the straight-line speed of the RB18 should come into play, but of course we all expect Max to be faster even if Checo gets a car like for like. Senna, Piquet and Fangio let their teammates win after their championships were sealed. Sometimes teammates do that kind of gesture which might seem counter-intuitive if you're out to set/break records, so it all depends on how one cares to be remembered in the history books.

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organic
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ispano6 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:39 pm
organic wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:09 am
With recent performances I'm not sure anything could guarantee Checo being able to get to 2nd at Mexico (to be let through to 1st); a huge car advantage would be required like Spa or multiple retirements, and Mexico really doesn't look like a track that will suit the RB18 at all. Just like last year, the narratives of Checo maybe winning Mexico will have evaporated by Sunday morning of the race weekend. Last year the RB16B could win Mexico by 20 seconds and Checo was third.. think if max has a chance to win mexico, that's what the team will get behind
With the way things are now that's the likely outcome I agree. However, Mexico is 4 races away, and if somehow max manages to win Singapore, Suzuka, and COTA, he'll have broken the 13 wins in a season record. But in order to equal the 9 wins in a row record he'll have to win Mexico and then Brazil to break it. I think that would be a bit of a stretch but certainly possible. Checo wasn't that far off in SPA and the straight-line speed of the RB18 should come into play, but of course we all expect Max to be faster even if Checo gets a car like for like. Senna, Piquet and Fangio let their teammates win after their championships were sealed. Sometimes teammates do that kind of gesture which might seem counter-intuitive if you're out to set/break records, so it all depends on how one cares to be remembered in the history books.
Take Spa: if you look at stint 2 and ignore stint 1 & 3 as stint 2 is the one where Max was still pushing & on comparable strategy to Perez. Perez was 9 tenths slower throughout the stint. 9 tenths is exactly "far off". Throw in that Leclerc was not involved at the front at Spa, and maybe if he was maybe Perez doesn't even nick 2nd? Unless RB is ridiculously dominant at Mexico, I can't see the margin ever being comfortable enough that RB would consider inverting max/checo if they somehow ended up 1-2. Throw in a competitive Mercedes who Checo has been behind at recent races like France, Zandvoort and we can't hope for a lucky DNF that allows him to be 2nd since it'd require a miracle of DNFs

We had this weeks of talk about Checo mounting a title fight, and weeks of it last year "will checo get his home win".. reality is these things will require absolute freaks of luck and not worth all the discussion imo

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ispano6
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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organic wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:47 pm
Take Spa: if you look at stint 2 and ignore stint 1 & 3 as stint 2 is the one where Max was still pushing & on comparable strategy to Perez. Perez was 9 tenths slower throughout the stint. The margin was significantly favourable for Perez as fieldspread gave him about 20 seconds in the first stint and in the third stint Max drove to a delta that was essentially Perez's laptime. 9 tenths is exactly "far off". Throw in that Leclerc was not involved at the front at Spa, and maybe if he was maybe Perez doesn't even nick 2nd? Unless RB is ridiculously dominant at Mexico, I can't see the margin ever being comfortable enough that RB would consider inverting max/checo if they somehow ended up 1-2. Throw in a competitive Mercedes who Checo has been behind at recent races like France, Zandvoort and we can't hope for a lucky DNF that allows him to be 2nd easily since it'd require a miracle
Max had a brand new engine in Spa and presumably a faster car. But Spa is Spa, Mexico is Mexico.
If Max has sealed the WDC by then, then Red Bull may shift focus to Marko's 2nd stated goal of the season which is to finish the season 1-2 in the WDC, which means they will put effort into ensuring CHECO gets as many points as possible to beat Leclerc. The margin for that would be to have Checo finish with as much gap to Leclerc, Sainz, and Russell in the remaining races after Max's WDC is sealed. So unless Max or Marko insist that 9-10 wins in a row is a goal that takes priority over Checo finishing 2nd in the WDC, I don't see it unreasonable to have Checo finish 1st in Mexico, in his home race, with Max finishing 2nd ahead of Leclerc to boost Checo's points difference.

It's nothing to get worked up about, really.

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etusch
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Isn't checo's himself who has to try his best to finish season P2. He should focus and work hard to learn how to drive a Championship winning car.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ispano6 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:59 pm
organic wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:47 pm
Take Spa: if you look at stint 2 and ignore stint 1 & 3 as stint 2 is the one where Max was still pushing & on comparable strategy to Perez. Perez was 9 tenths slower throughout the stint. The margin was significantly favourable for Perez as fieldspread gave him about 20 seconds in the first stint and in the third stint Max drove to a delta that was essentially Perez's laptime. 9 tenths is exactly "far off". Throw in that Leclerc was not involved at the front at Spa, and maybe if he was maybe Perez doesn't even nick 2nd? Unless RB is ridiculously dominant at Mexico, I can't see the margin ever being comfortable enough that RB would consider inverting max/checo if they somehow ended up 1-2. Throw in a competitive Mercedes who Checo has been behind at recent races like France, Zandvoort and we can't hope for a lucky DNF that allows him to be 2nd easily since it'd require a miracle
Max had a brand new engine in Spa and presumably a faster car. But Spa is Spa, Mexico is Mexico.
If Max has sealed the WDC by then, then Red Bull may shift focus to Marko's 2nd stated goal of the season which is to finish the season 1-2 in the WDC, which means they will put effort into ensuring CHECO gets as many points as possible to beat Leclerc. The margin for that would be to have Checo finish with as much gap to Leclerc, Sainz, and Russell in the remaining races after Max's WDC is sealed. So unless Max or Marko insist that 9-10 wins in a row is a goal that takes priority over Checo finishing 2nd in the WDC, I don't see it unreasonable to have Checo finish 1st in Mexico, in his home race, with Max finishing 2nd ahead of Leclerc to boost Checo's points difference.

It's nothing to get worked up about, really.
Getting Checo to 2nd place, Maybe Max starts playing blockers?