2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
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Wouter
88
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:57 pm
Kingshark wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:49 pm
According to Franco Nugnes, both Mercedes and Ferrari have already recovered the horsepower loss from the E10 fuel.

Meanwhile, according to Marko, Honda hasn’t recovered the loss of power yet.

Mercedes already had 15 horsepower on Honda last season. If Max wants any realistic shot at the title, Red Bull cannot allow that gap to get any larger.
.
Not surprising. There’s two potential reasons to consider for this.
ExxonMOBIL is their oil partner? Maybe they’re not as capable innovating as Shell and Petronas?
Or is this more likely falling to the engine people? I’m gonna guess the latter actually.

In that case, with Honda, well, they’re extremely competent to develop such a phenomenal engine last season. Only way their capability could be undermined is if the rumour ever turned out to be true that some Mercedes HPP knowledge leaked their way. Assuming it isn’t that, most likely for me, it’s Honda’s commitment - they left. The infrastructure of their spending, R&D etc must have wound down? RBR is in a transitional stage in reconstructing an Powertrains group as well.
So, it’s not a surprise that this may have bottlenecked development pace on the engine.
.
You couldn't be more further from the truth.
Just wait and see how fast the Honda PU will be in Bahrain.
The Power of Honda!

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AeroDynamic
331
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:25 am
Location: La règle du jeu

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Wouter wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:49 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:57 pm
Kingshark wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:49 pm
According to Franco Nugnes, both Mercedes and Ferrari have already recovered the horsepower loss from the E10 fuel.

Meanwhile, according to Marko, Honda hasn’t recovered the loss of power yet.

Mercedes already had 15 horsepower on Honda last season. If Max wants any realistic shot at the title, Red Bull cannot allow that gap to get any larger.
.
Not surprising. There’s two potential reasons to consider for this.
ExxonMOBIL is their oil partner? Maybe they’re not as capable innovating as Shell and Petronas?
Or is this more likely falling to the engine people? I’m gonna guess the latter actually.

In that case, with Honda, well, they’re extremely competent to develop such a phenomenal engine last season. Only way their capability could be undermined is if the rumour ever turned out to be true that some Mercedes HPP knowledge leaked their way. Assuming it isn’t that, most likely for me, it’s Honda’s commitment - they left. The infrastructure of their spending, R&D etc must have wound down? RBR is in a transitional stage in reconstructing an Powertrains group as well.
So, it’s not a surprise that this may have bottlenecked development pace on the engine.
.
You couldn't be more further from the truth.
Just wait and see how fast the Honda PU will be in Bahrain.

What is the truth then? Whats the point of responding to a question if theres nothing useful to elaborate with. I expect answers on here if people possess them.

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diffuser
154
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:53 pm
Wouter wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:49 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:57 pm

.
Not surprising. There’s two potential reasons to consider for this.
ExxonMOBIL is their oil partner? Maybe they’re not as capable innovating as Shell and Petronas?
Or is this more likely falling to the engine people? I’m gonna guess the latter actually.

In that case, with Honda, well, they’re extremely competent to develop such a phenomenal engine last season. Only way their capability could be undermined is if the rumour ever turned out to be true that some Mercedes HPP knowledge leaked their way. Assuming it isn’t that, most likely for me, it’s Honda’s commitment - they left. The infrastructure of their spending, R&D etc must have wound down? RBR is in a transitional stage in reconstructing an Powertrains group as well.
So, it’s not a surprise that this may have bottlenecked development pace on the engine.
.
You couldn't be more further from the truth.
Just wait and see how fast the Honda PU will be in Bahrain.

What is the truth then? Whats the point of responding to a question if theres nothing useful to elaborate with. I expect answers on here if people possess them.
It's all hearsay. Wouldn't put it past Marco to BS us about that. Pretty certain that the least powerful PU in Bahrain can still be the fastest car. How well RBR does at Bahrain has no direct reflection on how powerful the PU is.

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Jambier
4
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:02 am
Location: France

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

With Renault and Ferrari bringing new and huge upgrades (maybe not reliable), indeed RB will need to have a very good chassis

User avatar
Wouter
88
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:53 pm
Wouter wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:49 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:57 pm

.
Not surprising. There’s two potential reasons to consider for this.
ExxonMOBIL is their oil partner? Maybe they’re not as capable innovating as Shell and Petronas?
Or is this more likely falling to the engine people? I’m gonna guess the latter actually.

In that case, with Honda, well, they’re extremely competent to develop such a phenomenal engine last season. Only way their capability could be undermined is if the rumour ever turned out to be true that some Mercedes HPP knowledge leaked their way. Assuming it isn’t that, most likely for me, it’s Honda’s commitment - they left. The infrastructure of their spending, R&D etc must have wound down? RBR is in a transitional stage in reconstructing an Powertrains group as well.
So, it’s not a surprise that this may have bottlenecked development pace on the engine.
.
You couldn't be more further from the truth.
Just wait and see how fast the Honda PU will be in Bahrain.

What is the truth then?
Whats the point of responding to a question if theres nothing useful to elaborate with.
.
I haven't seen you ask a question anywhere. I've just seen a bunch of assumptions that I've responded to.

AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:53 pm
I expect answers on here if people possess them.
I can imagine that.
The Power of Honda!

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AeroDynamic
331
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:25 am
Location: La règle du jeu

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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You actually bolded three questions, where I asked where this challenge falls more towards Oil development partner or engine. I asked if their partner is ExxonMOBIL. What part of that discussion did you answer or provide any further insight?

User avatar
Wouter
88
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:29 pm
You actually bolded three questions, where I asked where this challenge falls more towards Oil development partner or engine.
I asked if their partner is ExxonMOBIL. What part of that discussion did you answer or provide any further insight?
Not at any part, because you answered those "questions" yourself.
By the way, do I have to tell you that Mobil1 is RBR's oil partner? You gotta be kidding me.

AeroDynamic wrote: ↑
19 Jan 2022, 18:57

Not surprising. There’s two potential reasons to consider for this.
ExxonMOBIL is their oil partner? Maybe they’re not as capable innovating as Shell and Petronas?
Or is this more likely falling to the engine people? I’m gonna guess the latter actually.

In that case, with Honda, well,
they’re extremely competent to ......
The Power of Honda!

f1jcw
f1jcw
11
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:15 pm

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Wouter wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:49 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:57 pm
Kingshark wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:49 pm
According to Franco Nugnes, both Mercedes and Ferrari have already recovered the horsepower loss from the E10 fuel.

Meanwhile, according to Marko, Honda hasn’t recovered the loss of power yet.

Mercedes already had 15 horsepower on Honda last season. If Max wants any realistic shot at the title, Red Bull cannot allow that gap to get any larger.
.
Not surprising. There’s two potential reasons to consider for this.
ExxonMOBIL is their oil partner? Maybe they’re not as capable innovating as Shell and Petronas?
Or is this more likely falling to the engine people? I’m gonna guess the latter actually.

In that case, with Honda, well, they’re extremely competent to develop such a phenomenal engine last season. Only way their capability could be undermined is if the rumour ever turned out to be true that some Mercedes HPP knowledge leaked their way. Assuming it isn’t that, most likely for me, it’s Honda’s commitment - they left. The infrastructure of their spending, R&D etc must have wound down? RBR is in a transitional stage in reconstructing an Powertrains group as well.
So, it’s not a surprise that this may have bottlenecked development pace on the engine.
.
You couldn't be more further from the truth.
Just wait and see how fast the Honda PU will be in Bahrain.
If you know the "truth" come out and say it.
If you don’t have "truth", then just give your opinion why it is wrong.

AeroDynamic, posted his opinion in an amicable way on a rumour posted by another poster.

User avatar
AeroDynamic
331
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:25 am
Location: La règle du jeu

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Wouter wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:09 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:29 pm
You actually bolded three questions, where I asked where this challenge falls more towards Oil development partner or engine.
I asked if their partner is ExxonMOBIL. What part of that discussion did you answer or provide any further insight?
Not at any part, because you answered those "questions" yourself.
By the way, do I have to tell you that Mobil1 is RBR's oil partner? You gotta be kidding me.

AeroDynamic wrote: ↑
19 Jan 2022, 18:57

Not surprising. There’s two potential reasons to consider for this.
ExxonMOBIL is their oil partner? Maybe they’re not as capable innovating as Shell and Petronas?
Or is this more likely falling to the engine people? I’m gonna guess the latter actually.

In that case, with Honda, well,
they’re extremely competent to ......
So you dont have any idea who this development falls more towards? Speculating isnt my idea of assuming - im not asserting anything as an answer, and welcome people to provide what they know. I dont know what you got out of this..

But thank you for answering about the sponsor!! :) I REALLY, really thought it was ExxonMOBIL 😊😊
f1jcw wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:30 pm

AeroDynamic, posted his opinion in an amicable way on a rumour posted by another poster.

If you know the "truth" come out and say it.
If you don’t have "truth", then just give your opinion why it is wrong.
THANKYOU.image
Last edited by AeroDynamic on Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:46 pm, edited 9 times in total.

User avatar
ispano6
119
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: my playseat

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:32 pm
Wouter wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:09 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:29 pm
You actually bolded three questions, where I asked where this challenge falls more towards Oil development partner or engine.
I asked if their partner is ExxonMOBIL. What part of that discussion did you answer or provide any further insight?
Not at any part, because you answered those "questions" yourself.
By the way, do I have to tell you that Mobil1 is RBR's oil partner? You gotta be kidding me.

AeroDynamic wrote: ↑
19 Jan 2022, 18:57

Not surprising. There’s two potential reasons to consider for this.
ExxonMOBIL is their oil partner? Maybe they’re not as capable innovating as Shell and Petronas?
Or is this more likely falling to the engine people? I’m gonna guess the latter actually.

In that case, with Honda, well,
they’re extremely competent to ......
So you dont have any idea who this development falls more towards? Speculating isnt my idea of assuming - im not asserting anything as an answer, and welcome people to provide what they know. I dont know what you got out of this..

But thank you for answering about the sponsor!! :) I REALLY, really thought it was ExxonMOBIL 😊😊
f1jcw wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:30 pm

AeroDynamic, posted his opinion in an amicable way on a rumour posted by another poster.
THANKYOU.

f1jcw wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:30 pm

If you know the "truth" come out and say it.
If you don’t have "truth", then just give your opinion why it is wrong.
https://i.imgur.com/G9AWfal.png
I find your diction in poor taste. In fact I question why you have started this thread given your tendency to denigrate RedBull and Honda. You post images that are quite frankly unnecessary.

As for your opinion that Honda's commitment is at fault for being allegedly behind Mercedes and Ferrari's power figures based on here say is conjecture at best given you have no accurate information to go off and are intentionally insinuating that Exxonmobil's fuel is up to par. Exxonmobil themselves have noted that Honda and RedBull didn't fully realize the potential of their upgraded oils during the 2021 campaign due to homologation so there already was performance to be gained over last year. It's been reported that Petronas and Shell developed fuel that recovers the 20hp or so loss from the lower energy density of 10% ethanol but you surmise Honda is at fault for not having recovered compared to 2021? In any case, Marko says that he is hearing positive news on that front so that can only mean Honda and ExxonMobil are making progress. At this point your opinion is more or less what you want to believe.

User avatar
Ryar
6
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:28 pm

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:53 pm
Wouter wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:49 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:57 pm

.
Not surprising. There’s two potential reasons to consider for this.
ExxonMOBIL is their oil partner? Maybe they’re not as capable innovating as Shell and Petronas?
Or is this more likely falling to the engine people? I’m gonna guess the latter actually.

In that case, with Honda, well, they’re extremely competent to develop such a phenomenal engine last season. Only way their capability could be undermined is if the rumour ever turned out to be true that some Mercedes HPP knowledge leaked their way. Assuming it isn’t that, most likely for me, it’s Honda’s commitment - they left. The infrastructure of their spending, R&D etc must have wound down? RBR is in a transitional stage in reconstructing an Powertrains group as well.
So, it’s not a surprise that this may have bottlenecked development pace on the engine.
.
You couldn't be more further from the truth.
Just wait and see how fast the Honda PU will be in Bahrain.

What is the truth then? Whats the point of responding to a question if theres nothing useful to elaborate with. I expect answers on here if people possess them.
You should keep yourself updated with Red Bull Honda developments so that you don't have to see someone telling you that. No point repeating what has transpired between RB and Honda. Dig it yourself.
Hakuna Matata!

Csmith1980
Csmith1980
0
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:00 pm

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Ryar wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:56 am
AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:53 pm
Wouter wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:49 pm

.
You couldn't be more further from the truth.
Just wait and see how fast the Honda PU will be in Bahrain.

What is the truth then? Whats the point of responding to a question if theres nothing useful to elaborate with. I expect answers on here if people possess them.
You should keep yourself updated with Red Bull Honda developments so that you don't have to see someone telling you that. No point repeating what has transpired between RB and Honda. Dig it yourself.
Ah, the good old “do your research” comment. Problem is the burden of proof is on wouter seeing as he claims to know the “truth”

User avatar
Ryar
6
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:28 pm

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Csmith1980 wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:45 am
Ryar wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:56 am
AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:53 pm



What is the truth then? Whats the point of responding to a question if theres nothing useful to elaborate with. I expect answers on here if people possess them.
You should keep yourself updated with Red Bull Honda developments so that you don't have to see someone telling you that. No point repeating what has transpired between RB and Honda. Dig it yourself.
Ah, the good old “do your research” comment. Problem is the burden of proof is on wouter seeing as he claims to know the “truth”
RB/Honda threads have been full of discussions on post departure arrangements about work handoff and what could be the impact and how it is planned to be mitigated. So, just a little research wouldn't harm or even better, keep on eye on proceedings, even if it's not one's favorite team. It helps the matters.
Hakuna Matata!

User avatar
SiLo
97
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

f1jcw wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:30 pm
If you know the "truth" come out and say it.
If you don’t have "truth", then just give your opinion why it is wrong.

AeroDynamic, posted his opinion in an amicable way on a rumour posted by another poster.
Nail -> Head.

A lot of the time we get threads going this way simply because nobody wants to qualify their comments with any kind of source of fact, or even a statement that it is their opinion and why.

Moving on - Marko saying they have yet to recover the rest of the lost HP due to the switch to E10 sounds about right, but I imagine when we get to Bahrain most of the teams will be fairly close in power as it was at the end of 2021.
Felipe Baby!

User avatar
Wouter
88
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

SiLo wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:26 pm
f1jcw wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:30 pm
If you know the "truth" come out and say it.
If you don’t have "truth", then just give your opinion why it is wrong.

AeroDynamic, posted his opinion in an amicable way on a rumour posted by another poster.
Nail -> Head.

A lot of the time we get threads going this way simply because nobody wants to qualify their comments
with any kind of source of fact, or even a statement that it is their opinion and why.
You want sources and facts?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18874

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26921

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=29593

https://the-race.com/category/formula-1/

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/
The Power of Honda!