2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Csmith1980
Csmith1980
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Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:00 pm

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Wouter wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:39 pm
SiLo wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:26 pm
f1jcw wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:30 pm
If you know the "truth" come out and say it.
If you don’t have "truth", then just give your opinion why it is wrong.

AeroDynamic, posted his opinion in an amicable way on a rumour posted by another poster.
Nail -> Head.

A lot of the time we get threads going this way simply because nobody wants to qualify their comments
with any kind of source of fact, or even a statement that it is their opinion and why.
You want sources and facts?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18874

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26921

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=29593

https://the-race.com/category/formula-1/

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/
Seems you’ve confused the word “Fact” with the word “speculation”.

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SiLo
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Wouter wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:39 pm
SiLo wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:26 pm
f1jcw wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:30 pm
If you know the "truth" come out and say it.
If you don’t have "truth", then just give your opinion why it is wrong.

AeroDynamic, posted his opinion in an amicable way on a rumour posted by another poster.
Nail -> Head.

A lot of the time we get threads going this way simply because nobody wants to qualify their comments
with any kind of source of fact, or even a statement that it is their opinion and why.
You want sources and facts?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18874

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26921

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=29593

https://the-race.com/category/formula-1/

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/
Where are the facts please? You've just linked threads and entire F1 websites.

Other than a quote from Marko saying the opposite of what you claim, is the rest speculation? Do we have direct quotes from RB or Honda engineers that say otherwise?
Felipe Baby!

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Wouter
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Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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SiLo wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:33 pm
Wouter wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:39 pm
SiLo wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:26 pm


Nail -> Head.

A lot of the time we get threads going this way simply because nobody wants to qualify their comments
with any kind of source of fact, or even a statement that it is their opinion and why.
You want sources and facts?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18874

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26921

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=29593

https://the-race.com/category/formula-1/

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/
Where are the facts please? You've just linked threads and entire F1 websites.

Other than a quote from Marko saying the opposite of what you claim, is the rest speculation? Do we have direct quotes from RB or Honda engineers that say otherwise?
I've listed a few reliable sources where you can find facts.
Why are you Mercedes fans always nagging for so long? Why do you want a link for everything?
Do you only read the Mercedes thread?

If I want information about a competing PU, I will have to do my own research.
I really don't get that information here from the Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault fans.

I want to leave it at this.
The Power of Honda!

Jolle
Jolle
132
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Wouter wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:14 pm
SiLo wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:33 pm
Where are the facts please? You've just linked threads and entire F1 websites.

Other than a quote from Marko saying the opposite of what you claim, is the rest speculation? Do we have direct quotes from RB or Honda engineers that say otherwise?
I've listed a few reliable sources where you can find facts.
Why are you Mercedes fans always nagging for so long? Why do you want a link for everything?
Do you only read the Mercedes thread?

If I want information about a competing PU, I will have to do my own research.
I really don't get that information here from the Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault fans.

I want to leave it at this.
Wouter, I’m under the impression that when someone posts news, a theory or opinion about Verstappen, Redbull or Honda that doesn’t align with your idea of their flawlessness, you get quite direct without real opinion, facts or your own theories, sometimes even with almost personal attacks. I don’t find this pleasant on this forum.

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Stu
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Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:05 am
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I would be surprised if the power loss hasn’t been recovered, that should be relatively straightforward, however the likelihood of there being zero cost in other areas are remote, this could be fuel economy, combustion speed, temperatures or several other things. Lubrication system efficiency also boosts power, as does turbo efficiency.
We heard big noises from Mercedes about them already running their 2022 power unit in a chassis, but this far ahead of the homologation deadline, I’m not so sure.
Development for power and reliability will continue for as long as is possible. Some items will definitely be finalised by now (those with long lead times), but the freedom to experiment and research will go right to the last!!
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

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Wouter
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Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Jolle wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:26 pm
Wouter, I’m under the impression that when someone posts news, a theory or opinion about Verstappen, Redbull or Honda that doesn’t align with your idea of their flawlessness, you get quite direct without real opinion, facts or your own theories, sometimes even with almost personal attacks. I don’t find this pleasant on this forum.
I'm sorry to hear you have that impression of me @Jolle. I can assure you I'm not like that.
It will depend on the way I write something. I will keep that in mind from now on,
because it should remain enjoyable for everyone, right?
The Power of Honda!

Jolle
Jolle
132
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:34 pm
Stu wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:57 pm
I would be surprised if the power loss hasn’t been recovered, that should be relatively straightforward, however the likelihood of there being zero cost in other areas are remote, this could be fuel economy, combustion speed, temperatures or several other things. Lubrication system efficiency also boosts power, as does turbo efficiency.
We heard big noises from Mercedes about them already running their 2022 power unit in a chassis, but this far ahead of the homologation deadline, I’m not so sure.
Development for power and reliability will continue for as long as is possible. Some items will definitely be finalised by now (those with long lead times), but the freedom to experiment and research will go right to the last!!
Me too. That is, by Bahrain. My other question remains; who is more responsible for clawing back this performance deficit, the oil partner ExxonMOBIL or Honda? If it’s Honda, are those resources that are in unsettled transition phase to Red Bull Powertrains, going to remain deployed towards R&D to regain the performance level back?

Could that mean Mercedes, (Renault..?) and Ferrari -and their partner teams-benefit from the engine manufacturers having spent more time gaining performance in other areas where the Honda engineers would otherwise be focusing on if they weren’t behind on recouping the performance from E10 fuel?

Wouter wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:59 pm
Jolle wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:26 pm
Wouter, I’m under the impression that when someone posts news, a theory or opinion about Verstappen, Redbull or Honda that doesn’t align with your idea of their flawlessness, you get quite direct without real opinion, facts or your own theories, sometimes even with almost personal attacks. I don’t find this pleasant on this forum.
I'm sorry to hear you have that impression of me @Jolle. I can assure you I'm not like that.
It will depend on the way I write something. I will keep that in mind from now on,
because it should remain enjoyable for everyone, right?
umm..
And please, we’re not 12 anymore. The gifs and “funny” links don’t contribute any value to a discussion.

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SiLo
97
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Wouter wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:14 pm
SiLo wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:33 pm
Where are the facts please? You've just linked threads and entire F1 websites.

Other than a quote from Marko saying the opposite of what you claim, is the rest speculation? Do we have direct quotes from RB or Honda engineers that say otherwise?
I've listed a few reliable sources where you can find facts.
Why are you Mercedes fans always nagging for so long? Why do you want a link for everything?
Do you only read the Mercedes thread?

If I want information about a competing PU, I will have to do my own research.
I really don't get that information here from the Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault fans.

I want to leave it at this.
Similarly I could just say The Internet as a source and it would have the same effect. And it's not just me here, many others are also looking for this information and they are also being deprived of a source what you insinuated. If it was just your opinion, then that's fine, just let us know so we can distinguish the two. I actually hold that opinion, I think Honda will find all the power lost from the switch to E10, much like the reports of Mercedes and Ferrari.

As yet, there appear to be not reports conflicting with Marko's comments about the loss of power from the switch to E10. This is after doing some reading on the topic and checking out the provided links.
Felipe Baby!

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lio007
289
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Austria

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Oh Lord, let pre-season testing start, it can't be soon enough!

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hollus
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Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:21 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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The last 3 pages had 20% content, 80% personal battle.
A few people have gotten PMs and many posts have been deleted.

Back on topic, please. Seriously, no one comes here to se the member vs member battles. that's not what this site is about.
As a general rule, BTW:
Asking for information, is OK.
Demanding information, is not so OK. No one is on trial.

Go personal below this line at you own peril.
I would like to see a paleontologist.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
537
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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hollus wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:59 pm

Asking for information, is OK.
Demanding information, is not so OK. No one is on trial.
"Please provide a source" is ok, "Provide a source" isn't? Is that where the line is? The former is a request, the later a demand. It's a semantic difference for many, especially non-native English speakers.

Not having a go, dear moderator, just pointing out that there is a very fine line here.

If someone states a "fact", either directly or by the manner of their post, it's not unreasonable on a technical forum for others to ask for sources / background.

If someone expresses an opinion, then that's "freedom of speech" stuff and should be considered accordingly by all concerned.

If asked for sources when "facts" are stated, giving extremely general references that don't actually deal with the issue being discussed is not great. This is a technical forum - reference a fact or state that it's an opinion. It's not a tricky thing to ask forum members to do.

If you can't substantiate a point, then say it's an opinion. If someone states a "fact" without substantiation then, in my opinion, the mods should be dealing with that post, not the ones requesting clarification.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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langedweil
1
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:51 pm
Location: Caribbean

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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My oh my .. it's only Jan 20th and things are already heating up.
Shouldn't we just wait for car presentations in a couple of weeks (with most likely no parts that will be raced with), the first testweek late Feb, or even some official announcements !?
I'd say Honda will be just as involved as they have been, and I just hope last years battle to end didn't drain development too much. But based on totally nothing, I fear RB will start off 2022 at least as 3rd fastest, after Fer and Merc.
HuggaWugga !

Henri
Henri
-5
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:58 am

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Newey has to show if his not overrated because dan fallow was the chief designer of the cars not him.. lets see if they competitive ?

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Ryar
6
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:28 pm

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Henri wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:17 am
Newey has to show if his not overrated because dan fallow was the chief designer of the cars not him.. lets see if they competitive ?
I had mentioned this previously, Newey stepped aside from his responsibilities in 2016 and Dan Fallows led the 2017 car development, which turned out to be a dud unfortunately. Everyone thought there was going to be a Spec B coming out soon because the new car was completely bland, but it never happened. Newey was brought back to bring some competitiveness for the car that resulted in decent progress and a more respectable 2018. We have witnessed it already. For a man who has delivered so many championships with different teams, there is hardly anything left to prove really. Nothing is going damage his reputation.
Hakuna Matata!

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ispano6
119
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: my playseat

Re: 2022 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Henri wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:17 am
Newey has to show if his not overrated because dan fallow was the chief designer of the cars not him.. lets see if they competitive ?
Exactly who does he need to prove to that he isn't overrated? Overrated usually applies to someone who is new and without a proven track record.

From Wikipedia:
Newey-designed cars have won the following Formula One World Constructors' Championships:

1992 – Williams FW14B
1993 – Williams FW15C
1994 – Williams FW16
1996 – Williams FW18
1997 – Williams FW19
1998 – McLaren MP4/13
2010 – Red Bull RB6
2011 – Red Bull RB7
2012 – Red Bull RB8
2013 – Red Bull RB9
2021 – Red Bull RB16b (drivers championship, could have been a constructor's championship too)