2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[wowgr8]

Leclerc has a crashing sickness. He needs to visit a shaman or something.

According to him, the rear brakes failed.

Fronts for sure.

Those old school cars had brakes in the rear?

[wowgr8]

Last year after Austria qualifying I remember Binotto (I think it was) saying that Ferrari were losing out on the straights because their DRS wasn't as powerful as the other cars. It makes it a bit shocking that they didn't work on maximizing DRS effectiveness the way Red Bull have this year, they're also a team that got burned on the straights in the previous ruleset

I know that comparison image isn't scientific but the Red Bull flap looks bigger than the Ferrari flap despite the fact that Ferrari are running a bigger wing

They're very very restricted by budget but I think they have to copy the Red Bull style wings to stop them from haemorrhaging so much speed on the straights and being powerless in battle. This might be an oversimplification but the flap has to be a big reason why the Red Bull gains so much speed with DRS open while the Ferrari does not

[Spoutnik]

https://i.imgur.com/kt9B5p0.jpg

Last year after Austria qualifying I remember Binotto (I think it was) saying that Ferrari were losing out on the straights because their DRS wasn't as powerful as the other cars. It makes it a bit shocking that they didn't work on maximizing DRS effectiveness the way Red Bull have this year, they're also a team that got burned on the straights in the previous ruleset

I know that comparison image isn't scientific but the Red Bull flap looks bigger than the Ferrari flap despite the fact that Ferrari are running a bigger wing

They're very very restricted by budget but I think they have to copy the Red Bull style wings to stop them from haemorrhaging so much speed on the straights and being powerless in battle. This might be an oversimplification but the flap has to be a big reason why the Red Bull gains so much speed with DRS open while the Ferrari does not

I don't think it's only about the rear wing. The Ferrari is "dragy" overall. The RB is a chassis with less drag. It's a bit like comparing 2019 Mercedes and 2019 Ferrari, Ferrari wasn't gaining all these kph by cheating.
Ferrari still has the best PU, they just need to maximise their performance with this philosophy : a better tyre deg due to more downforce (we've seen that until Imola), a car easy to push to the limit, a better car in slow-medium speed which is the best way to win the championship, not all track will be Jeddah or Monza.

[Sansovino]

https://i.imgur.com/kt9B5p0.jpg

Last year after Austria qualifying I remember Binotto (I think it was) saying that Ferrari were losing out on the straights because their DRS wasn't as powerful as the other cars. It makes it a bit shocking that they didn't work on maximizing DRS effectiveness the way Red Bull have this year, they're also a team that got burned on the straights in the previous ruleset

I know that comparison image isn't scientific but the Red Bull flap looks bigger than the Ferrari flap despite the fact that Ferrari are running a bigger wing

They're very very restricted by budget but I think they have to copy the Red Bull style wings to stop them from haemorrhaging so much speed on the straights and being powerless in battle. This might be an oversimplification but the flap has to be a big reason why the Red Bull gains so much speed with DRS open while the Ferrari does not

I don't think it's only about the rear wing. The Ferrari is "dragy" overall. The RB is a chassis with less drag. It's a bit like comparing 2019 Mercedes and 2019 Ferrari, Ferrari wasn't gaining all these kph by cheating.
Ferrari still has the best PU, they just need to maximise their performance with this philosophy : a better tyre deg due to more downforce (we've seen that until Imola), a car easy to push to the limit, a better car in slow-medium speed which is the best way to win the championship, not all track will be Jeddah or Monza.

I think they're mostly right. At least in Miami they had very similar straight line speed when they both did not have DRS. You can also see that the rear wing design of the Ferrari would be more draggy with DRS activated.

[F1NAC]

https://i.imgur.com/kt9B5p0.jpg

Last year after Austria qualifying I remember Binotto (I think it was) saying that Ferrari were losing out on the straights because their DRS wasn't as powerful as the other cars. It makes it a bit shocking that they didn't work on maximizing DRS effectiveness the way Red Bull have this year, they're also a team that got burned on the straights in the previous ruleset

I know that comparison image isn't scientific but the Red Bull flap looks bigger than the Ferrari flap despite the fact that Ferrari are running a bigger wing

They're very very restricted by budget but I think they have to copy the Red Bull style wings to stop them from haemorrhaging so much speed on the straights and being powerless in battle. This might be an oversimplification but the flap has to be a big reason why the Red Bull gains so much speed with DRS open while the Ferrari does not

They need and have a RW with flatter main plane. That is the differentiator. DRS flaps looks similar in shape.

Seems like there were visible pieces flying of the brakes from Leclerc's run in Monte Carlo. Man cannot catch a break there..



credit: Found on reddit

[wowgr8]

They need and have a RW with flatter main plane. That is the differentiator. DRS flaps looks similar in shape.

I don't think it's just a flat main plane. You can have a flat main plane and smaller flap. The whole wing has to be designed around the flap's effectiveness, as seems to be the case with the RB

[F1NAC]

According to him, the rear brakes failed.

Fronts for sure.

Those old school cars had brakes in the rear?

Yes. Inboard brakes. Not like today in rim area

[FDD]

https://i.imgur.com/kt9B5p0.jpg

Last year after Austria qualifying I remember Binotto (I think it was) saying that Ferrari were losing out on the straights because their DRS wasn't as powerful as the other cars. It makes it a bit shocking that they didn't work on maximizing DRS effectiveness the way Red Bull have this year, they're also a team that got burned on the straights in the previous ruleset

I know that comparison image isn't scientific but the Red Bull flap looks bigger than the Ferrari flap despite the fact that Ferrari are running a bigger wing

They're very very restricted by budget but I think they have to copy the Red Bull style wings to stop them from haemorrhaging so much speed on the straights and being powerless in battle. This might be an oversimplification but the flap has to be a big reason why the Red Bull gains so much speed with DRS open while the Ferrari does not

I was thinking the same way, but I am not an aero expert, so maybe someone with knowledge and experience in this area can tell something more.

[FDD]

https://i.imgur.com/kt9B5p0.jpg

Last year after Austria qualifying I remember Binotto (I think it was) saying that Ferrari were losing out on the straights because their DRS wasn't as powerful as the other cars. It makes it a bit shocking that they didn't work on maximizing DRS effectiveness the way Red Bull have this year, they're also a team that got burned on the straights in the previous ruleset

I know that comparison image isn't scientific but the Red Bull flap looks bigger than the Ferrari flap despite the fact that Ferrari are running a bigger wing

They're very very restricted by budget but I think they have to copy the Red Bull style wings to stop them from haemorrhaging so much speed on the straights and being powerless in battle. This might be an oversimplification but the flap has to be a big reason why the Red Bull gains so much speed with DRS open while the Ferrari does not

I don't think it's only about the rear wing. The Ferrari is "dragy" overall. The RB is a chassis with less drag. It's a bit like comparing 2019 Mercedes and 2019 Ferrari, Ferrari wasn't gaining all these kph by cheating.
Ferrari still has the best PU, they just need to maximise their performance with this philosophy : a better tyre deg due to more downforce (we've seen that until Imola), a car easy to push to the limit, a better car in slow-medium speed which is the best way to win the championship, not all track will be Jeddah or Monza.

Nobody knows whether F75 is more draggy because nobody has exact model from both cars, CFD analyses on sidepods by Vanja#66 does not confirm that.
Also if F75 is more draggy it is important to know the root of that, bodywork or wings.
Also they have problems with proposing so they can not work the floor on its max and they have to use more DF from the wings, this is my assumption but I am not an expert and maybe I am totally wrong.

[mika vs michael]

Maybe the RB18 body, diffuser and floor produces more downforce than Ferrari so they are able to run lower df wing levels...

[dialtone]

Maybe the RB18 body, diffuser and floor produces more downforce than Ferrari so they are able to run lower df wing levels...

Some folks keep saying that but I don't think it has any data backing it.

First of all people say that Merc's floor produces most DF and that's why they porpoise the most, so if we follow that reasoning, Ferrari's floor produces more DF than RB since it porpoises more.

Second, some videos like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l29SZc19y4I, point to RB's floor taking a more gentle/stable approach rather than peak DF, so again it would generate less DF. Vanja said this video is crap, so I also wouldn't take it too much into consideration but still...

Ferrari is clearly the faster in slow corners, medium corners and fast corners, why would RedBull, if they can produce more DF while losing rear wing, be slower in those corners that specifically put a premium on high and efficient DF?

The only data that has been fueling this myth is that RedBull had a big top speed advantage in Bahrain and Jeddah when Ferrari was clearly running a higher DF package. If your car can generate more DF in more efficient way, you see it in the telemetry, so far there has been no race or quali in which this benefit has shown, in fact the opposite.

What has shown instead is that RedBull doesn't porpoise, Ferrari and Merc do, this is the difference between top cars today and why RedBull can drop updates like rain and everyone else is struggling.

[Spoutnik]

Interesting question with interesting answers.

[mika vs michael]

@dialtone Redbull seems to hold their tyres in better shape...also they were able to keep close to Ferrari...so to me it looks like they don't lose in the slow corners that much and surely less than what Ferrari loses on the straights. In F1 it is the slow corners where you can gain more time. So if Ferrari was so much stronger then Redbull would not be able to catch them...unless RB18 is 50hp more on the straights...but I don't think so. LEt's wait and see how it pans out in Barcelona...and Monaco of course.

[dialtone]

@dialtone Redbull seems to hold their tyres in better shape...also they were able to keep close to Ferrari...so to me it looks like they don't lose in the slow corners that much and surely less than what Ferrari loses on the straights. In F1 it is the slow corners where you can gain more time. So if Ferrari was so much stronger then Redbull would not be able to catch them...unless RB18 is 50hp more on the straights...but I don't think so. LEt's wait and see how it pans out in Barcelona...and Monaco of course.

These 2 cars have minimal tyre management differences. It mostly depends on how the car was setup and the type of compromises that they can find with the limitations they have (e.g. porpoising).

Here's how I see it:
* Bahrain: Ferrari was just faster here, and had better traction and kept the tyres better, so advantage Ferrari.
* Jeddah: track was so little tyre deg that it was indifferent, RedBull could bring hards up to temp faster. Ferrari needed 2 laps for quali.
* Australia: Clearly Ferrari found the better setup, RedBull didn't. Ferrari needed 2 laps for quali.
* Imola: Ferrari had wrong setup in the car, not sure what they were hoping for in the race, plus needed 2 laps for quali.
* Miami: Ferrari had to run hard suspension to avoid porpoising and not pay top speed, compromised the slow. Pretty much the opposite of Australia where RedBull probably couldn't load the front more due to balance. Ferrari needed only 1 lap in quali, could get hards up to temp faster than RedBull.

I don't think there's much between these 2 cars, the difference has been purely setup except in Bahrain and Jeddah.

[sosic2121]

Fronts for sure.

Those old school cars had brakes in the rear?

Yes. Inboard brakes. Not like today in rim area

Why modern (f1) cars dropped this solution?