2022 Alpine F1 Team

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djos
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:31 pm
ringo wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:48 am
They may not be top of the pile next year, but there is no reason they cannot be second best team in 2 years time. Ferrari is a low bar to climb, and Mercedes are on the backfoot.
:shock:

That's a big call and it will be a great thing to see if Alpine have overtaken Ferrari and Mercedes by 2024! =D>

djos wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:19 pm
Yeah I think Oscar is mad ditching Alpine for Mclaren
Oscar had the choice between Williams and McLaren, not Alpine and McLaren.

What Oscar was most likely presented with was a 1 year Williams deal with an option for at least one more Williams year after that. Not an Alpine deal, not for 2024 and certainly not for 2023.

Otmar Szafnauer :
We offered [Alonso] a one plus one deal. And we discussed with Fernando that: 'look, if next year at this time, you're performing at the same level, of course, we will take you and that could have carried on'.
https://uk.motor1.com/news/602060/alpin ... s-release/

On this basis, how is it possible that Piastri was presented with a confirmed 2024 Alpine drive months ago and turned it down?

The presentation of a confirmed 2024 Alpine drive for Piastri to sign months ago seems very unlikely when the Alpine team principal says they intended to exercise Alonso's option for at least one further year (2024) if not "carrying on" beyond that.

Given this, the choice between confirmed Williams + 'maybe at some point' Alpine or confirmed McLaren seems extremely straight-forward.
True, Nando signing for AM really threw a spanner in everyone’s plans.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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djos
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:23 pm
JordanMugen wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:31 pm
ringo wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:48 am
They may not be top of the pile next year, but there is no reason they cannot be second best team in 2 years time. Ferrari is a low bar to climb, and Mercedes are on the backfoot.
:shock:

That's a big call and it will be a great thing to see if Alpine have overtaken Ferrari and Mercedes by 2024! =D>

djos wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:19 pm
Yeah I think Oscar is mad ditching Alpine for Mclaren
Oscar had the choice between Williams and McLaren, not Alpine and McLaren.

What Oscar was most likely presented with was a 1 year Williams deal with an option for at least one more Williams year after that. Not an Alpine deal, not for 2024 and certainly not for 2023.

Otmar Szafnauer :
We offered [Alonso] a one plus one deal. And we discussed with Fernando that: 'look, if next year at this time, you're performing at the same level, of course, we will take you and that could have carried on'.
https://uk.motor1.com/news/602060/alpin ... s-release/

On this basis, how is it possible that Piastri was presented with a confirmed 2024 Alpine drive months ago and turned it down?

The presentation of a confirmed 2024 Alpine drive for Piastri to sign months ago seems very unlikely when the Alpine team principal says they intended to exercise Alonso's option for at least one further year (2024) if not "carrying on" beyond that.

Given this, the choice between confirmed Williams + 'maybe at some point' Alpine or confirmed McLaren seems extremely straight-forward.
Pretty sure he meant "mad" for not taking Alonso's seat when told.

There is a good chance of a long drawn out court case.Also, Ricciardo has exercised his opition with McLaren for 2023. Now McLaren have to pay him more than 15 million (15 is guaranteed) not to drive for them.
Yes that is what I meant, however as pointed out it most likely did not appear to be an option when he signed what is assumed to be a McLaren contract for next year.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

zoroastar
zoroastar
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:48 am
JordanMugen wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:23 am
ringo wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:27 am
Apline has big ambitions. Don't be too short sighted. Rossi will surprise many.
I'll believe it when it happens. At this point I would feel more confident betting on Red Bull-Porsche to have a championship-contending car in 2026 than Alpine-Renault, even though Alpine have a 100 race plan to be contending for the title by then.

That's even with the Red Bull having a brand new power unit that year. Apparently Red Bull Powertrains, who will build the most likely "Porsche" branded unit, have 300 employees already starting from zero just 24 months ago.

Unless I'm mistaken -- please correct me if I am wrong -- I don't recall either Alpine at Enstone or Renault at Viry moving that fast or being willing to invest capital at that rate? :?:
I think they have a very successful engine program. It's very underestimated because of all the other happenings in the paddock with redbull powertrains and Ferrari engine improvement. But Alpine made a very reliable and powerful engine after switching architecture. The drivers don't complain of power deficit or engine gremlins.
Rossi is the driver behind this successful change, and I believe they are quite good at executing their plans. They are taking things step by step and actually delivering on the planned objectives.
This team is a quality team, and I wouldn't use the current drama to write them off as a shambles. They have a better odds of winning a championship than Mclaren. They have their own engine, and they make very good chassis historically. The engine is no longer weak.
They may not be top of the pile next year, but there is no reason they cannot be second best team in 2 years time. Ferrari is a low bar to climb, and Mercedes are on the backfoot. Redbull may even move backwards with the Porsche engine, even though I suspect they will stick with Honda.
its about time they built a fast reliable engine. it took them 7 years. even with all of their problems, honda flew past them and now have a WDC under their belt. i just dont see any reason to expect them to suddenly surpass ferrari, redbull or mercedes (or even mclaren for that matter). they havent shown the will to inject the funds to do it. this years car is good, and then this happens. it looks like incompetence, and a management team thats not in touch with whats going on around them. how does all this contract stuff lead anyone to believe that they have some kind of master plan to get them to the top in a few years. this would never happen at any of the top teams (except maybe ferrari)

zoroastar
zoroastar
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:29 am
JordanMugen wrote:
Sun Jul 17, 2022 10:24 pm
Piastri's deal has to be the priority. If Alpine cannot find a placement for Piastri, then Alpine have no choice but to put Piastri in the Alpine. :)

Unlike Alonso to which Alpine have no obligation, Piastri is however under contract to Alpine. It is certainly a pressing matter that Piastri's Formula 1 drive at Alpine or elsewhere be announced promptly.
Alonsismo wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 1:04 am
piastri or sargeant are not at the level of Fernando (and will never be even close). ... piastri is a noname driver, Alonso is THE GOAT.
diffuser wrote:
Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:52 pm
Let's not forget that if [Piastri] has Mich Schumacher debut to F1, the previous F2 Champ, it will cost Alpine millions.
zoroastar wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 2:50 am
the only guarantee that alpine has with putting Piastri into the alpine next year is that they will be saving money on a salary. which they will most likely lose in endorsements, not having a driver like alonso in the team.
Well it happened! Alonso to Aston Martin Racing on a 2-year-deal and therefore not given a 2-year extension by Alpine F1 Team. [confirmed here: https://www.astonmartinf1.com/en-GB/new ... f1-in-2023 ]

So Piastri is most likely to debut for Alpine F1 Team, unless something bizarre happens. :) Quite the turn of events in Piastri's favour! =D>

Piastri will follow in the footsteps of other Renault & Lotus rookies like Heikki Kovalainen, Nelson Piquet Jr, Romain Grosjean, Vitaly Petrov, Bruno Senna and Joylon Palmer. The idea that Piastri is simply not good enough to drive for Alpine, while all those other rookies were good enough, always made no sense IMO.
something bizarre did happen... haha. just saw this to reply.

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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zoroastar wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:54 am
something bizarre did happen... haha. just saw this to reply.
An Australian perspective on the Piastrophe from a Piastri backer:
  • Alpine only put in €500,000 out of a €3,000,000 Formula 2 budget.
  • There was no formal Williams offer.
  • Alpine were informed about Piastri's offer from another team and Alpine did not object.
  • There was no formal Alpine offer at that point.
  • Ricciardo was out at McLaren not matter what, regardless of Piastri.

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djos
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:00 am
zoroastar wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:54 am
something bizarre did happen... haha. just saw this to reply.
An Australian perspective on the Piastrophe from a Piastri backer:
  • Alpine only put in €500,000 out of a €3,000,000 Formula 2 budget.
  • There was no formal Williams offer.
  • Alpine were informed about Piastri's offer from another team and Alpine did not object.
  • There was no formal Alpine offer at that point.
  • Ricciardo was out at McLaren not matter what, regardless of Piastri.
That's pretty damming and confirms the suspicions many of us had. Alpine need to cut their losses and sign Daniel to drive the 2nd car.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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diffuser
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Location: Montreal

Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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djos wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:05 am
JordanMugen wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:00 am
zoroastar wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:54 am
something bizarre did happen... haha. just saw this to reply.
An Australian perspective on the Piastrophe from a Piastri backer:
  • Alpine only put in €500,000 out of a €3,000,000 Formula 2 budget.
  • There was no formal Williams offer.
  • Alpine were informed about Piastri's offer from another team and Alpine did not object.
  • There was no formal Alpine offer at that point.
  • Ricciardo was out at McLaren not matter what, regardless of Piastri.
That's pretty damming and confirms the suspicions many of us had. Alpine need to cut their losses and sign Daniel to drive the 2nd car.
Who knows. All that would be normal if they thought they had an iron clad contract with Piastri. Let see if it goes to court or not.

I wouldn't touch Ricciardo until he has been paid in full. It would be idiotic to jump in while they're negotiating. Regardless, if Ricciardo drives for McLaren or not, he will get paid. So my goal would be to have McLaren pay Alpine to take him. Not to subsidize McLaren. Ricciardo would have nowhere else to go anyways. No rush to do anything with Danny.

Ground Effect
Ground Effect
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:54 am
djos wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:05 am
JordanMugen wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:00 am


An Australian perspective on the Piastrophe from a Piastri backer:
  • Alpine only put in €500,000 out of a €3,000,000 Formula 2 budget.
  • There was no formal Williams offer.
  • Alpine were informed about Piastri's offer from another team and Alpine did not object.
  • There was no formal Alpine offer at that point.
  • Ricciardo was out at McLaren not matter what, regardless of Piastri.
That's pretty damming and confirms the suspicions many of us had. Alpine need to cut their losses and sign Daniel to drive the 2nd car.
Who knows. All that would be normal if they thought they had an iron clad contract with Piastri. Let see if it goes to court or not.

I wouldn't touch Ricciardo until he has been paid in full. It would be idiotic to jump in while they're negotiating. Regardless, if Ricciardo drives for McLaren or not, he will get paid. So my goal would be to have McLaren pay Alpine to take him. Not to subsidize McLaren. Ricciardo would have nowhere else to go anyways. No rush to do anything with Danny.
It's possible that the size of Daniel's payoff is dependent on whether he can secure another drive. Not sure how Alpine can make McLaren pay his Alpine salary if he signs with them. The payment may not be due until the start of the 2023 season.
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

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peewon
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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Theres a possibility that the contract has to be voided if Ricciardo wants to sign with a different team. If thats the case then McLaren will know that there is no way Ricciardo would want to sit out a year given all the junior talent lurking. Alpine also don't really have a good experienced driver unless they decide to go Hulkenberg route. That gives some leverage to Mclaren to negotiate down his buyout. Ricciardo takes a hair cut on his pay. Alpine and Mclaren split the rest as salary and buyout respectively.

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diffuser
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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peewon wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:42 pm
Theres a possibility that the contract has to be voided if Ricciardo wants to sign with a different team. If thats the case then McLaren will know that there is no way Ricciardo would want to sit out a year given all the junior talent lurking. Alpine also don't really have a good experienced driver unless they decide to go Hulkenberg route. That gives some leverage to Mclaren to negotiate down his buyout. Ricciardo takes a hair cut on his pay. Alpine and Mclaren split the rest as salary and buyout respectively.
Yep, there are alot of possibilities. Otmar say Piastri's super license is only valid for Alpine in 2023. He can't drive in F1 with any other team. If he goes to McLaren, he'd have to sitout and accumulate the mileage with McLaren.

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:00 am
peewon wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:42 pm
Theres a possibility that the contract has to be voided if Ricciardo wants to sign with a different team. If thats the case then McLaren will know that there is no way Ricciardo would want to sit out a year given all the junior talent lurking. Alpine also don't really have a good experienced driver unless they decide to go Hulkenberg route. That gives some leverage to Mclaren to negotiate down his buyout. Ricciardo takes a hair cut on his pay. Alpine and Mclaren split the rest as salary and buyout respectively.
Yep, there are alot of possibilities. Otmar say Piastri's super license is only valid for Alpine in 2023. He can't drive in F1 with any other team. If he goes to McLaren, he'd have to sitout and accumulate the mileage with McLaren.
How is it that Piastri’s license is only valid for Alpine? The license belongs to the driver and isn’t tied to an specific team… There is no “mileage” requirement for a the Super License, simply an amount of points required (which Piastri has), as well as other requirements (like age - 18+, an actual driver license and passing a test)… I’m not aware of Super License been tied to a Team.

TimW
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:10 am
diffuser wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:00 am
peewon wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:42 pm
Theres a possibility that the contract has to be voided if Ricciardo wants to sign with a different team. If thats the case then McLaren will know that there is no way Ricciardo would want to sit out a year given all the junior talent lurking. Alpine also don't really have a good experienced driver unless they decide to go Hulkenberg route. That gives some leverage to Mclaren to negotiate down his buyout. Ricciardo takes a hair cut on his pay. Alpine and Mclaren split the rest as salary and buyout respectively.
Yep, there are alot of possibilities. Otmar say Piastri's super license is only valid for Alpine in 2023. He can't drive in F1 with any other team. If he goes to McLaren, he'd have to sitout and accumulate the mileage with McLaren.
How is it that Piastri’s license is only valid for Alpine? The license belongs to the driver and isn’t tied to an specific team… There is no “mileage” requirement for a the Super License, simply an amount of points required (which Piastri has), as well as other requirements (like age - 18+, an actual driver license and passing a test)… I’m not aware of Super License been tied to a Team.
As I understand, the license is only valid in combination with a valid contract submitted with F1's Contract Recognition Board. So if Alpine has a 2023 contract submitted to the CRB, and the CRB upholds Alpine's contract, he can only drive for Alpine. F1 will not allow him to race for another team. CRB must say the Alpine contract is not valid, and he must have a valid contract with another team, to be allowed to drive for another team.

Ground Effect
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:00 am
peewon wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:42 pm
Theres a possibility that the contract has to be voided if Ricciardo wants to sign with a different team. If thats the case then McLaren will know that there is no way Ricciardo would want to sit out a year given all the junior talent lurking. Alpine also don't really have a good experienced driver unless they decide to go Hulkenberg route. That gives some leverage to Mclaren to negotiate down his buyout. Ricciardo takes a hair cut on his pay. Alpine and Mclaren split the rest as salary and buyout respectively.
Yep, there are alot of possibilities. Otmar say Piastri's super license is only valid for Alpine in 2023. He can't drive in F1 with any other team. If he goes to McLaren, he'd have to sitout and accumulate the mileage with McLaren.
Not sure this is completely accurate, half truths
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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TimW wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:17 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:10 am
diffuser wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:00 am


Yep, there are alot of possibilities. Otmar say Piastri's super license is only valid for Alpine in 2023. He can't drive in F1 with any other team. If he goes to McLaren, he'd have to sitout and accumulate the mileage with McLaren.
How is it that Piastri’s license is only valid for Alpine? The license belongs to the driver and isn’t tied to an specific team… There is no “mileage” requirement for a the Super License, simply an amount of points required (which Piastri has), as well as other requirements (like age - 18+, an actual driver license and passing a test)… I’m not aware of Super License been tied to a Team.
As I understand, the license is only valid in combination with a valid contract submitted with F1's Contract Recognition Board. So if Alpine has a 2023 contract submitted to the CRB, and the CRB upholds Alpine's contract, he can only drive for Alpine. F1 will not allow him to race for another team. CRB must say the Alpine contract is not valid, and he must have a valid contract with another team, to be allowed to drive for another team.
I believe they are different things:

- The super license belongs to the driver, for example today Hulk doesn’t have a contract with anyone, but he still has his license… The license itself belongs to the driver and is renewed in a yearly basis if all requirements are met.

- A driver can only race for a team with a contract recognized by the CRB, but this is a contractual situation that isn’t related to the license itself.

The confusion may be that one of the requirement is that the driver has to drive 300km in an F1 car as a requirement to get it, but this in reality isn’t an issue, nor is it tied to a particular team.

Mansell89
Mansell89
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Re: 2022 Alpine F1 Team

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Well, do they snap up Danny Ricc, or has the ship sailed?