Haas VF-22 Speculation Thread

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godlameroso
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Re: Haas VF-22 Speculation Thread

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
07 Feb 2022, 17:37
godlameroso wrote:
07 Feb 2022, 15:59
More air over the diffuser increases mass flow, since that part creates upwash, the pressure is higher than the diffuser. More mass and more upwash = greater pressure difference between diffuser and upper surface.

Flow doesn't move from low to high pressure. So you are missing out a few factors there.
Never said it does. Force is transmitted from the high pressure side to the low side. The top part of the diffuser is the high side, the inner part of the diffuser is the low side. Since there is less pressure, the high pressure side on top will create a force in the low pressure direction. Take your hands and put them together, if you press your right side towards your left side, if the pressure is equal you won't move, if your left hand has less pressure it gives way to the right. That's what's happening with the diffuser. The part above has higher pressure than the part below, the part below gives way.

If you move air in a direction where its pressure rises, where it slows down(like a parachute), the air's kinetic energy becomes converted to pressure energy. The faster the air is moving, the greater the collision, the faster you clap your hands, the louder the sound. You want clean fast air to collide with the pressure increasing surfaces to impart greater kinetic force. The pressure increasing surfaces are going to slow down that air anyway, and those surfaces are going to generate pressure difference between the top of the car and the bottom of the car.

Faster travelling air imparts more kinetic energy, but to satisfy Bernoulli's principle, the faster the fluid, the lower its static pressure, as this compensates for the increase in kinetic energy...until it doesn't(choked flow/pressure increase(like smacking into a barn/or the diffuser in a turbine inlet)).
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Haas VF-22 Speculation Thread

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diffuser wrote:
07 Feb 2022, 17:39
Just_a_fan wrote:
07 Feb 2022, 10:39


And yet the diffuser works best with fast air flowing over it. It's why the teams make so much effort to get good airflow over the diffuser. The conditions within the diffuser are helped by the strakes - that's why reducing their size last year had an effect on the downforce produced.

As for air not moving through the coke bottle region, sorry that's just plain wrong. One only has to look at flow viz / dirty cars to see the air flows through there. It's why the teams make so much effort sculpting the rear of the side pods to encourage air through there.

It's also worth remembering, of course, that the air isn't moving, the car is. The air is effectively still until the car gets to it. :wink:
I think the term "fast" is a problem. Fast would suggest that it's faster than the air below the diffuser. If that were true you'd have lift and not DF. The air under the car is squeezed, therefore it accelerates to get the same amount of air through the bottom as the top. Good air flowing, I think, is a better way to say it. The more air you can get to flow over the top, the faster the air undernath will be and the more DF generated.
It's about getting the air above and below the diffuser's rear edge to be as close to the same speed as possible. The diffuser's job is to return the quicker moving air under the floor to ambient speed at its exit. If you have slow air above the diffuser's rear edge, it will be at a higher pressure than the air below the diffuser's rear edge. In that case, the air will want to wrap under to fill the low pressure. That reduces the diffuser's efficiency. That's my understanding, anyway.
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hollus
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Re: Haas VF-22 Speculation Thread

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I always though of it in even simpler terms: If you can get the air over the floor to go a bit faster, you will succeed in the air under the floor to go two or three bits faster. And the downforce gain from the latter outweighs the losses from the former. It might be too simple a model, but it explains much of the last 30 years quite well.
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diffuser
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Re: Haas VF-22 Speculation Thread

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hollus wrote:
07 Feb 2022, 22:38
I always though of it in even simpler terms: If you can get the air over the floor to go a bit faster, you will succeed in the air under the floor to go two or three bits faster. And the downforce gain from the latter outweighs the losses from the former. It might be too simple a model, but it explains much of the last 30 years quite well.
You can't make the air above the diffuser go any faster that the car is traveling, without having the pressure drop?

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hollus
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Re: Haas VF-22 Speculation Thread

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I didn’t mean faster than that, I meant avoiding any slow down as much as possible. It is only the air below the car that accelerates extra.

And I should stop going off topic.
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godlameroso
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Re: Haas VF-22 Speculation Thread

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Why not have both though? Raise the pressure above and lower it below, and then use flow structures to keep them separated. Like the old 'The offspring' song went, you gotta keep em separated.
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jumpingfish
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Re: Haas VF-22 Speculation Thread

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The tests soon, and they are still deciding which suspension to choose?


JPBD1990
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Re: Haas VF-22 Speculation Thread

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What about that post suggests they are yet to decide? I think it’s safe to say they’ve decided, considering both Haas and Ferrari have passed front crash tests and the chassis is homologated (to the best of my knowledge?)

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Re: Haas VF-22 Speculation Thread

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Maybe they homologated 2 chassis, if it is allowed, I do not know.

Jolle
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Re: Haas VF-22 Speculation Thread

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FDD wrote:
08 Feb 2022, 11:38
Maybe they homologated 2 chassis, if it is allowed, I do not know.
The difference between push or pull rod front suspension is more than just the front of the chassis, it has aero implications all over the car, so it's decided quite early in the design process.

Ringleheim
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Re: Haas VF-22 Speculation Thread

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Car looks like the Ferrari from 2009.

Doesn't seem revolutionary for that reason.

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jagunx51
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Re: Haas VF-22 Speculation Thread

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jumpingfish wrote:
08 Feb 2022, 10:25
The tests soon, and they are still deciding which suspension to choose?

https://twitter.com/Vetteleclerc/status ... 5753610242
According to THE RACE video, the way HAAS present the 3D picture is suspicious, the pushrod meets the chassis isnt blended in like the other suspension members... are they hiding the real suspension design? :-k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPytuKo87W8

Image
............!!!!

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Blackout
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Re: Haas VF-22 Speculation Thread

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There is no hole on the tub for the pushrod and for the steering arm. So the suspension rendering is very simplified. But the older renders Haas released in 2018, 2019 and 2020 had no holes neither (but their suspensions looked less simplistic)

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jjn9128
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Re: Haas VF-22 Speculation Thread

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jagunx51 wrote:
08 Feb 2022, 14:18
jumpingfish wrote:
08 Feb 2022, 10:25
The tests soon, and they are still deciding which suspension to choose?

https://twitter.com/Vetteleclerc/status ... 5753610242
According to THE RACE video, the way HAAS present the 3D picture is suspicious, the pushrod meets the chassis isnt blended in like the other suspension members... are they hiding the real suspension design? :-k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPytuKo87W8

https://i.imgur.com/p0qf2ar.jpeg
...because the wishbones are mounted by flexures which are rigid in their location whereas the pushrod slides in and out. It's also just a render. It's typical offseason tinfoil hat stuff.
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diffuser
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Re: Haas VF-22 Speculation Thread

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I guess I don't understand why if Haas has chosen to go with a pullrod front suspension why they would hide it?

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