Mercedes W13

[ringo]

What Aston Martin's Andrew Green thinks of the zero-pods

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ndy-green/



If Mercedes can eliminate the bouncing they will be crazy quick!

I think miami showed it not all about the bouncing, they seem to struggle massively with getting the tires in the operating window

i bet the bouncing is not more worth then 2-3 tenths alone, maybe because they can use a better setup without that. Ferrari shows that bouncing alone isnt a big issue and you can be quick anyway. Maybe its worse for mercedes somehow, but at this point i doubt that its still there biggest issue.

There is more time for mercedes in their car because their car is bouncing in more places than the likes of ferrari.
They could find even 1.5 seconds per lap if they rid of the bouncing. That car loses about a tenth per corner with the issues it has. It cannot brake late, it cannot turn in consistently, and it cannot apply traction properly because of the compromises made to make it drivable. So I would say on a track with many corners up to 1.5 seconds. On a simpler track they can find 1 second if they solve their issues.

[matteosc]

I think miami showed it not all about the bouncing, they seem to struggle massively with getting the tires in the operating window

i bet the bouncing is not more worth then 2-3 tenths alone, maybe because they can use a better setup without that. Ferrari shows that bouncing alone isnt a big issue and you can be quick anyway. Maybe its worse for mercedes somehow, but at this point i doubt that its still there biggest issue.

There is more time for mercedes in their car because their car is bouncing in more places than the likes of ferrari.
They could find even 1.5 seconds per lap if they rid of the bouncing. That car loses about a tenth per corner with the issues it has. It cannot brake late, it cannot turn in consistently, and it cannot apply traction properly because of the compromises made to make it drivable. So I would say on a track with many corners up to 1.5 seconds. On a simpler track they can find 1 second if they solve their issues.

Maybe in an ideal world in which all their problem are fixed without compromise. I think on Friday in Miami we saw a more realistic version of the problem-free Mercedes, which was on pair with Ferrari and Red Bull, but definitely not 1-1.5 seconds faster than at the moment.

[Emag]

That's a silly thing to say about Andrew Green.

That's your opinion. Supposedly AM is coming with a big upgrade/redesign in Barcelona, lets see if they put their money where there mouth is and actually go that direction (the concept of "zero" sidepod).

Green is no fool. He is one of the better technical directors. He is highly rated.
Can't see why you would doubt his insight.

Probably because of RP "copy-gate" in 2020. Surely it wasn't strictly Green's decision to go that way, but his smug comments during pre season testing certainly didn't help with the reputation.

And the fact that Aston Martin complained through the entirety of 2021 while having the same concept with Mercedes who almost won the championship.

Add to that the absolute dogsh*t of a car that Aston has come up with for the new regulations (so far, let's see where the new concept takes them).

So yeah, not exactly a thrilling resume.

Mercedes shouldn't really care about anyone's opinion on their car though. They are the only ones who have the full picture on their concept. Their decision to stay with this concept or move away from it certainly wont be biased by other TD opinions.

[napoleon1981]

That's a silly thing to say about Andrew Green.

That's your opinion. Supposedly AM is coming with a big upgrade/redesign in Barcelona, lets see if they put their money where there mouth is and actually go that direction (the concept of "zero" sidepod).

Green is no fool. He is one of the better technical directors. He is highly rated.
Can't see why you would doubt his insight.

Don't put words in my mouth please, never said anyone was a fool. It was just a gentle jab at the trajectory Aston Martin was on. Loosen up a little, life is not that serious all the time.

[PlatinumZealot]

That's your opinion. Supposedly AM is coming with a big upgrade/redesign in Barcelona, lets see if they put their money where there mouth is and actually go that direction (the concept of "zero" sidepod).

Green is no fool. He is one of the better technical directors. He is highly rated.
Can't see why you would doubt his insight.

Probably because of RP "copy-gate" in 2020. Surely it wasn't strictly Green's decision to go that way, but his smug comments during pre season testing certainly didn't help with the reputation.

And the fact that Aston Martin complained through the entirety of 2021 while having the same concept with Mercedes who almost won the championship.

Add to that the absolute dogsh*t of a car that Aston has come up with for the new regulations (so far, let's see where the new concept takes them).

So yeah, not exactly a thrilling resume.

Mercedes shouldn't really care about anyone's opinion on their car though. They are the only ones who have the full picture on their concept. Their decision to stay with this concept or move away from it certainly wont be biased by other TD opinions.

I'm shocked people think like this! Well might as well say James Key is rubbish then.

This is not Mike Gascoyne or Garry Anderson we are talking about. Green has done wonders with very limited budgets. If you followed him closely over the years he has a very high hit rate when it comes to getting upgrades working and he has gotten podiums on some of the lowest budgets. You cannot really use the Stroll shake-up period as any barometer for Green's abilities, you have to look back into the details around each of his cars.

The Aston Martin's performance is not representative btw. They have been hit hard by the porpoising phenomenon. As Green said, the design of the Mercedes gearbox lead them down a particular path which ended up being very susceptible to porpoising. Sorta explains why the cars that use that gearbox really are affected and have to raise their ride height up.

The comments here make me realize how people underestimate the difficulty of Formula 1. Green is the first technical director that gives us an insight in the Mercedes pods; we should be grateful for it.

[Big Tea]

I think miami showed it not all about the bouncing, they seem to struggle massively with getting the tires in the operating window

i bet the bouncing is not more worth then 2-3 tenths alone, maybe because they can use a better setup without that. Ferrari shows that bouncing alone isnt a big issue and you can be quick anyway. Maybe its worse for mercedes somehow, but at this point i doubt that its still there biggest issue.

There is more time for mercedes in their car because their car is bouncing in more places than the likes of ferrari.
They could find even 1.5 seconds per lap if they rid of the bouncing. That car loses about a tenth per corner with the issues it has. It cannot brake late, it cannot turn in consistently, and it cannot apply traction properly because of the compromises made to make it drivable. So I would say on a track with many corners up to 1.5 seconds. On a simpler track they can find 1 second if they solve their issues.

The 'bouncing' also means they can not run the car as low as they would like so it looses a lot of (potential) downforce, which could add another 2-4 tenths, so summing up a few of these losses along with tyre warm up problems, which may also be cured by the 'fix' it would transform the car (if it worked)

[matteosc]

i bet the bouncing is not more worth then 2-3 tenths alone, maybe because they can use a better setup without that. Ferrari shows that bouncing alone isnt a big issue and you can be quick anyway. Maybe its worse for mercedes somehow, but at this point i doubt that its still there biggest issue.

There is more time for mercedes in their car because their car is bouncing in more places than the likes of ferrari.
They could find even 1.5 seconds per lap if they rid of the bouncing. That car loses about a tenth per corner with the issues it has. It cannot brake late, it cannot turn in consistently, and it cannot apply traction properly because of the compromises made to make it drivable. So I would say on a track with many corners up to 1.5 seconds. On a simpler track they can find 1 second if they solve their issues.

The 'bouncing' also means they can not run the car as low as they would like so it looses a lot of (potential) downforce, which could add another 2-4 tenths, so summing up a few of these losses along with tyre warm up problems, which may also be cured by the 'fix' it would transform the car (if it worked)

All teams had to raise their cars because of porpoising. Mercedes is the one loosing most from this, but all teams are loosing some performance. I do not think it is realistic to compare "Mercedes ideal conditions" vs "other teams real conditions".

Also, this is not really what the thread is about: this should probably be moved to the team thread, until physical parts are seen on the car in Barcelona.

[matteosc]

There is more time for mercedes in their car because their car is bouncing in more places than the likes of ferrari.
They could find even 1.5 seconds per lap if they rid of the bouncing. That car loses about a tenth per corner with the issues it has. It cannot brake late, it cannot turn in consistently, and it cannot apply traction properly because of the compromises made to make it drivable. So I would say on a track with many corners up to 1.5 seconds. On a simpler track they can find 1 second if they solve their issues.

The 'bouncing' also means they can not run the car as low as they would like so it looses a lot of (potential) downforce, which could add another 2-4 tenths, so summing up a few of these losses along with tyre warm up problems, which may also be cured by the 'fix' it would transform the car (if it worked)

And the bouncing only allows them to turn their engine to number 7, if they can solve that they can tune to number 11 and could gain another 3.14159 seconds per lap!

Which is not a random number !

[NicoS]

The 'bouncing' also means they can not run the car as low as they would like so it looses a lot of (potential) downforce, which could add another 2-4 tenths, so summing up a few of these losses along with tyre warm up problems, which may also be cured by the 'fix' it would transform the car (if it worked)

And the bouncing only allows them to turn their engine to number 7, if they can solve that they can tune to number 11 and could gain another 3.14159 seconds per lap!

Which is not a random number !

of course the team will have to work all the way around possible solutions and all the way across...

[morefirejules08]

Supposedly The W13 at todays filming day

[hollus]

Once more. What would it take to get posters to actually pay attention to the thread rules?

https://i.imgur.com/NVPF2Qz.png

This is the official Mercedes W13 car thread. The thread has been created to facilitate discussion specifically about the W13 car.

Please, ONLY discuss technical items of this car. Refrain from speculation.

General discussion about the team, its drivers and performance can be posted in the team thread.

Livery discussion also belongs in the 2022 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team thread.

[chrisc90]

Did they always run that style of rear wing? Seems/looks different.

Floor stay is still there

[mkay]

Did they always run that style of rear wing? Seems/looks different.

Floor stay is still there

Highly unlikely they would reveal new bits on a shot taken during a filming day.

[chrisc90]

Did they always run that style of rear wing? Seems/looks different.

Floor stay is still there

Highly unlikely they would reveal new bits on a shot taken during a filming day.

Extra day aint going to hurt nobody in the scheme of things. Especially given how the car is running on the grid at the minute position wise.

There were a few people hinting they might be testing some upgrades on their filming day and given the fact they are allowed to use upgrades during a filming day, I think it would have been wise to.

[swarren7]

Here is my thinking. If porpoising is coming from the floor stalling when the car hits the ground why not put some type of spacer/block in the rear shocks that only allow the car to compress so much preventing the car from ever hitting the ground hence the floor would not stall and no more porpoising. Explain why this would not work.