Mercedes W13

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
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organic
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Re: Mercedes W13

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https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... grenzwert/
Mercedes has a package of measures in the bag for Montreal that is designed to reduce the bounciness of the car. This was planned even before the FIA threatened to tighten the thumbscrews. The floor was stiffened and further slots were added at the edges. The FIA's offer to add a second support strut has been gratefully accepted.

And if none of this helps? Then Mercedes would have to raise its car in accordance with the FIA directive. But the geometry of the rear suspension places limits on the vehicle's height. "At some point, we can't go any higher." In that case, Mercedes would not be allowed to race if the FIA is consistent.
Translation by DeepL

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atanatizante
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Re: Mercedes W13

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How about a damper driver seat system just to cope with the porpoising/bouncing/bottoming issues? I think that if W13 were faster than RB18 they would not be moaning so much about it, isn`t it?

Then, from the Baku pictures: could be that RB18`s floor is designed to have a linear shape to withstand a speed until proposing is occurring, then have a slope that with in conjunction to a higher rake than any other car to still produce more downforce out from diffuser rather than Venturi tunnels?
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siskue2005
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Re: Mercedes W13

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organic wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:00 pm
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... grenzwert/
Mercedes has a package of measures in the bag for Montreal that is designed to reduce the bounciness of the car. This was planned even before the FIA threatened to tighten the thumbscrews. The floor was stiffened and further slots were added at the edges. The FIA's offer to add a second support strut has been gratefully accepted.

And if none of this helps? Then Mercedes would have to raise its car in accordance with the FIA directive. But the geometry of the rear suspension places limits on the vehicle's height. "At some point, we can't go any higher." In that case, Mercedes would not be allowed to race if the FIA is consistent.
Translation by DeepL
Second floor stay?

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes W13

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Big Tea wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:17 pm
mzivtins wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:15 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:35 pm
Does it matter? If the 'body' is stopped out on rubber it should go no lower on that (both) side as that's as low as it goes. It could still 'bump' but should not hit the floor as long as tyre flex is considered.
EDIT: F1 cars might not even have/need bump stops :o

Again just purely from GT3/GTE etc bump stops tend to have a curve that looks like it could go to infinity, obviously in the real world the deformation turn plastic at a point and the stop will split and be destroyed, but they are so aggressively strong.

In its absolute purest for, coil spring (red line) vs bump stop (blue line), you can see why a bump stop is actually such a great thing to have, and also why even though you would expect it to be hitting a limit, it still has more to give lol
https://s100.iracing.com/wp-content/upl ... gchart.jpg

But as others have mentioned, the tyres are there too.

I only know this from the absolute basic level, a good setup on my brother Audi R8 LMS GT3 car runs on the bump stops almost the entire time, the mclaren i have is a bit different with the front being on bump stops almost always and the rear probably half as often, and I dont know why! Thinking low corner exit traction is better with linear spring rates... who knows, im sure the bros on this forum would know exactly why haha

EDIT: Hard to find pictures of F1, but we can see F2 cars of some age runs on the bump stop at the front:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ec/24/5f ... e1a469.jpg
I agree, but at some point the rubber (its not rubber of course) will be fully deformed and any further compression will take a huge increase for a very small deflection. This can easily be miscalculated, but once the driver does a lap it will be plain if the 'plank' is hitting the ground or not, and the preset can be adjusted accordingly by a very small amount.
A handful of laps could give close to as perfect as you can get. A fraction on or off depending how much the driver (or detector now??) can trade off.

Edit, The 'job' of the bump stop is to come into play once the 'suspension' has run out of movement so it would ideally be a last resort.

(that's a nice photograph)
DINAN (BMW tuners and racing team) put much effort into bumpstop tuning. Their bumpstops are special materials that are made for long cycles and enables flexible suspension tuning for curbs and such. Mr. Dinan says it can make the difference between a good suspension tune and a bad one.
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morefirejules08
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Re: Mercedes W13

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siskue2005 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:38 pm
organic wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:00 pm
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... grenzwert/
Mercedes has a package of measures in the bag for Montreal that is designed to reduce the bounciness of the car. This was planned even before the FIA threatened to tighten the thumbscrews. The floor was stiffened and further slots were added at the edges. The FIA's offer to add a second support strut has been gratefully accepted.

And if none of this helps? Then Mercedes would have to raise its car in accordance with the FIA directive. But the geometry of the rear suspension places limits on the vehicle's height. "At some point, we can't go any higher." In that case, Mercedes would not be allowed to race if the FIA is consistent.
Translation by DeepL
Second floor stay?
Visible between the upper rear suspension arms on the photos posted on Twitter

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siskue2005
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Re: Mercedes W13

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morefirejules08 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:01 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:38 pm
organic wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:00 pm
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... grenzwert/



Translation by DeepL
Second floor stay?
Visible between the upper rear suspension arms on the photos posted on Twitter
That's the first saty isn't it? Which they have been using since the first test. Or have I missed something new?

holeindalip
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Re: Mercedes W13

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siskue2005 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:02 pm
morefirejules08 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:01 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:38 pm

Second floor stay?
Visible between the upper rear suspension arms on the photos posted on Twitter
That's the first saty isn't it? Which they have been using since the first test. Or have I missed something new?
You can see clearly it’s behind the rear suspension not in front….

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siskue2005
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Re: Mercedes W13

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morefirejules08 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:01 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:38 pm
organic wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:00 pm
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... grenzwert/



Translation by DeepL
Second floor stay?
Visible between the upper rear suspension arms on the photos posted on Twitter
Image

You mean this one?
But that's been there for a long time it's not new.

Hazmat
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Re: Mercedes W13

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They haven’t fitted the front one( the normal one) in that series of pics, as teams have until recently been limited to a single stay, there is a very high chance that the small stay in the pic is new

holeindalip
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Re: Mercedes W13

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siskue2005 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:48 pm
morefirejules08 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:01 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:38 pm

Second floor stay?
Visible between the upper rear suspension arms on the photos posted on Twitter
https://serving.photos.photobox.com/917 ... 7190ba.jpg

You mean this one?
But that's been there for a long time it's not new.
I’ve never seen it before, the normal one goes in front of the rear suspension down to the floor edge and the mounting point can be seen in the photos it’s just not on the car yet….
Image

grgid979
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Re: Mercedes W13

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It was always there:

https://i.redd.it/khd9er6gafy81.jpg

Check behind the suspension. Clearly there. The other one is in front of the suspension.
Last edited by grgid979 on Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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siskue2005
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Re: Mercedes W13

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holeindalip wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:05 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:48 pm
morefirejules08 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:01 pm

Visible between the upper rear suspension arms on the photos posted on Twitter
https://serving.photos.photobox.com/917 ... 7190ba.jpg

You mean this one?
But that's been there for a long time it's not new.
I’ve never seen it before, the normal one goes in front of the rear suspension down to the floor edge and the mounting point can be seen in the photos it’s just not on the car yet….
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVZkbt3XsAc ... =4096x4096
Ok we may have to look at old pics and lets wait when the cars come out for fp1 to confirm

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RZS10
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Re: Mercedes W13

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the small one has been on the car in the Barcelona test
Image

holeindalip
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Re: Mercedes W13

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RZS10 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:54 pm
the small one has been on the car in the Barcelona test
https://f1tcdn.net/gallery/var/resizes/ ... 23/017.jpg
Ok thanks for confirming that, just never noticed it before

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AeroDynamic
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Re: Mercedes W13

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