Red Bull RB18

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
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hollus
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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This is a topic for the team thread, though, not for the car thread.
codetower wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 10:22 pm
etusch wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:49 pm
codetower wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:27 pm


Is there just a monetary penalty for going over the budget cap? If so, I really don't see the big budget teams like FER/RB/MERC really being too worried. They can can take a financial hit and just pay the cost to go over.
what you said is; there is not budget cap
No, I was curious what the penalties are for going over. The unofficial docs I’ve seen state a financial penalty for going over 5%, then possible reprimands, maybe points taken off (constructors, drivers), but I am curious what the penalties are.
I would like to see a paleontologist.

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Stu
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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organic wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:34 am


Kyle has analysed the RB floor

He discusses much of what I've been curious about, especially the steps on the keel which we've also seen on the McLaren
I’ve watched that this morning, very interesting seeing it on a big screen!
I think that somebody suggested a couple of weeks ago that RB may be doing something very unexpected under the floor (and now that the other teams have had a great view I would imagine that they are using some CFD budget to analyse it!?).
The light in the photos throws up some weird shadows and profiles, it really looks as though they are operating the floor as front and rear sections (and this could be why they seem to be avoiding the porpoising that is affecting the two other ‘big’ players).
Maybe Vanja, Jjn et al can run some analysis on the following….

Maximising tunnel entrance, followed by minimising the throat as far forward as is possible (just after the innermost strake finishes); at this point the throat is as wide as the regulations allow.
Now create an expansion zone within the tunnel to the maximum dimensions allowed before reducing back to the minimum for a second throat section (just before the diffuser limit).
This should allow for the vortices created by the various features in the floor side and strakes to re-energise the flow before the second throat, giving two pressure peak areas.
The small diffuser created outboard of the floor-edge wing looks to be there to influence the tyre squirt and assist with the rear hub aero.
For what it is worth, McLaren also look to be using a similar tunnel profile, but the execution is far more vanilla….
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

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Re: Red Bull RB18

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F1Krof wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:21 pm
https://twitter.com/NaturalParadigm/sta ... VP3Dc4_9sg
Could this be the key to their no-porpoising success?

Also there is one thing I'm struggling to understand how the flaps are setup.

Is it like split flaps meeting at the end like so:

https://i.imgur.com/QWW0hSz.jpg

Or are the flaps mounted with an angle:

https://i.imgur.com/rOqq5no.jpg
@Stu Photos of the RB floor have been circulated since late April. I'm not sure what has taken Kyle so long to analyze it (I guess he has other employment). Also, other teams will have seen the RB floor long before Monaco. We have also seen the Ferrari floor long ago. The post I quoted has images of the RB floor from April. These types of photos will have been available in Bahrain with each teams "designated photographers..."

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diffuser
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:16 pm
F1Krof wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:21 pm
https://twitter.com/NaturalParadigm/sta ... VP3Dc4_9sg
Could this be the key to their no-porpoising success?

Also there is one thing I'm struggling to understand how the flaps are setup.

Is it like split flaps meeting at the end like so:

https://i.imgur.com/QWW0hSz.jpg

Or are the flaps mounted with an angle:

https://i.imgur.com/rOqq5no.jpg
@Stu Photos of the RB floor have been circulated since late April. I'm not sure what has taken Kyle so long to analyze it (I guess he has other employment). Also, other teams will have seen the RB floor long before Monaco. We have also seen the Ferrari floor long ago. The post I quoted has images of the RB floor from April. These types of photos will have been available in Bahrain with each teams "designated photographers..."

True. I love Kyle's stuff. Guess he doesn't follow us here at F1 TECHNICAL. Someone should ping him about us.....

This is promising stuff for other teams like Alpine who would surely have had pictures of that April RBR under floor.

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F1Krof
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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Stu wrote:
Sun Jun 12, 2022 12:07 pm
organic wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:34 am


Kyle has analysed the RB floor

He discusses much of what I've been curious about, especially the steps on the keel which we've also seen on the McLaren
I’ve watched that this morning, very interesting seeing it on a big screen!
I think that somebody suggested a couple of weeks ago that RB may be doing something very unexpected under the floor (and now that the other teams have had a great view I would imagine that they are using some CFD budget to analyse it!?).
The light in the photos throws up some weird shadows and profiles, it really looks as though they are operating the floor as front and rear sections (and this could be why they seem to be avoiding the porpoising that is affecting the two other ‘big’ players).
Maybe Vanja, Jjn et al can run some analysis on the following….

Maximising tunnel entrance, followed by minimising the throat as far forward as is possible (just after the innermost strake finishes); at this point the throat is as wide as the regulations allow.
Now create an expansion zone within the tunnel to the maximum dimensions allowed before reducing back to the minimum for a second throat section (just before the diffuser limit).
This should allow for the vortices created by the various features in the floor side and strakes to re-energise the flow before the second throat, giving two pressure peak areas.
The small diffuser created outboard of the floor-edge wing looks to be there to influence the tyre squirt and assist with the rear hub aero.
For what it is worth, McLaren also look to be using a similar tunnel profile, but the execution is far more vanilla….
The other question is: do they bend outwardly on velocity changes?
Wroom wroom

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organic
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... chan-2022/

This new AMuS article claims rb18 still about 8kg overweight

Translation of relevant part of article
RB18 still too heavy

The team boss doesn't want to write Ferrari off. The season is still too long for that. "In the last five races, there were strong swings in our direction. But that can turn around again. Ferrari undoubtedly has a strong car if they solve their problems. We must therefore take every opportunity they offer us. 2018 was still in the back of our minds." At that time, it had come to the team-internal collision between Verstappen and Daniel Ricciardo in Baku.

Ferrari is strong and was on the better strategy after the first VSC. Without Leclerc's retirement, it might not have worked out with a double victory either. "With Max, we would have had Leclerc," says a convinced Marko. Red Bull put the advantage in the race at three to four tenths of a second per lap over Ferrari. Maranello doubts whether Verstappen would have actually passed. DRS and slipstream were not such sharp swords in Baku.

The developments hit home. The revised underbody also met expectations in Azerbaijan. Red Bull still has one trump card up its sleeve. The RB18 is expected to weigh around eight kilograms more than the minimum weight. But that also depends on the setup. Ferrari is expected to be around the minimum weight of 798 kilograms. If that's the case, Red Bull still has 0.25 seconds up its sleeve in theory. But the last kilos are the most expensive. Keyword: budget cap.

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jagunx51
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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*** I post it here because RB18 seems to be a benchmark to others

How F1 teams combatted porpoising and unleashed performance
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-t ... /10322711/
One of the most obvious areas of development, up and down the grid, is on the edge of the floor, with teams not only able to decide on whether to use an ‘edge wing’ but also the geometry of the floor's edge and its discontinuity ahead of the rear tyre.
Red Bull has forged its own path in many respects, with the RB18 featuring one of the most highly refined floor designs on the grid. Unsurprisingly, some of those design features are now finding their way into rivals’ designs too, so let’s take a deeper dive into what Red Bull is doing…
Image
The level of contouring seen on the underside of the RB18 is considerably different to what’s seen elsewhere. Whereas most teams appear to have a gentle curvature to the central boat-shaped section, Red Bull has an abrupt kink [2] roughly in-line with where the outwardly angled strakes terminate with the edge of the floor.

To soften this sudden transition there’s also a number of swages in the sidewall of the tunnel [1], which itself seems to have much more of a domed roof than many of the other solutions being used by its rivals. While this means it’s not utilising the maximum allowable space that the regulations permit, it likely reduces flow instability across a wider range of ride heights.

Red Bull has also employed a multi-step keel design as the floor tapers into the diffuser section at the rear of the car [3] and is a feature that Ferrari has incorporated into its latest redesign and something we’ve seen from McLaren too.
............!!!!

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Re: Red Bull RB18

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That drawing by Piola is the clearest view of RB floor. Very helpful. I notice the semicircular roof where the tunnel is narrowest followed by 2 sharp steps further back. The cross sectional area in the semicircular section seems to be the greatest. The throat of the venturi is right back at the two steps and the sectional area is dramatically smaller there. I am much surprised to see it that far back. The maximum downforce is at the ICE. I wonder if that is so the car's balance is less affected as the fuel reduces.

AR3-GP
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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The detail on the RB floor is absurd.

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Stu
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:35 pm
The detail on the RB floor is absurd.
Impeccable, I would say…
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

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Blackout
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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A suspicious level of detail Image

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gandharva
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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Image

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organic
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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Barcelona/Monaco RW I believe

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ispano6
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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jagunx51 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:29 pm
*** I post it here because RB18 seems to be a benchmark to others

How F1 teams combatted porpoising and unleashed performance
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-t ... /10322711/
One of the most obvious areas of development, up and down the grid, is on the edge of the floor, with teams not only able to decide on whether to use an ‘edge wing’ but also the geometry of the floor's edge and its discontinuity ahead of the rear tyre.
Red Bull has forged its own path in many respects, with the RB18 featuring one of the most highly refined floor designs on the grid. Unsurprisingly, some of those design features are now finding their way into rivals’ designs too, so let’s take a deeper dive into what Red Bull is doing…
https://cdn-6.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... loor-1.jpg
The level of contouring seen on the underside of the RB18 is considerably different to what’s seen elsewhere. Whereas most teams appear to have a gentle curvature to the central boat-shaped section, Red Bull has an abrupt kink [2] roughly in-line with where the outwardly angled strakes terminate with the edge of the floor.

To soften this sudden transition there’s also a number of swages in the sidewall of the tunnel [1], which itself seems to have much more of a domed roof than many of the other solutions being used by its rivals. While this means it’s not utilising the maximum allowable space that the regulations permit, it likely reduces flow instability across a wider range of ride heights.

Red Bull has also employed a multi-step keel design as the floor tapers into the diffuser section at the rear of the car [3] and is a feature that Ferrari has incorporated into its latest redesign and something we’ve seen from McLaren too.
It would be interesting how much Red Bull have updated the floor between the one seen in Monaco vs the updated floor in Baku. The leading edge and ceiling of the floor already had some changes and undoubtedly the veins and strakes downstream likely have changed too. It's a bit unfortunate that Perez's crash revealed so much, but it's probably likely that teams saw it before the Monaco weekend.

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Big Tea
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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Blackout wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:04 pm
A suspicious level of detail http://www.rf1-forum.com/phpBB3/images/smilies/cyp.gif
I wonder if that is a photograph digitised rather than a drawing? it is very intricate.
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