The Road to the 50% Thermally Efficient F1 Internal Combustion Engine

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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vorticism
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Re: The Road to the 50% Thermally Efficient F1 Internal Combustion Engine

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johnny comelately wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:19 am
This is our old test mule showing the dual flame jet ignition where it was cast welded inserts and went too lean (methanol) causing the burn out/in on one cylinder. Unconventional engine design, dont ask
3 mm holes, 94 mm bore
https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88777 ... tOt0o2XJq0
Where are the valves? Two stroke?

gruntguru
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Re: The Road to the 50% Thermally Efficient F1 Internal Combustion Engine

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Looks like a (Bishop?) rotary valve.
je suis charlie

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vorticism
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Re: The Road to the 50% Thermally Efficient F1 Internal Combustion Engine

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Not Bishop. Starts with a D... I'll let johnny explain. :)

johnny comelately
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Re: The Road to the 50% Thermally Efficient F1 Internal Combustion Engine

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vorticism wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:45 pm
Not Bishop. Starts with a D... I'll let johnny explain. :)
I said "dont ask" LOL
not a D (for Dunstan) either
But let us not digress, the point is the flame ignition (which works so well)
But there you have it, too lean, from memory maybe around 1
supercharged to 15 psi
The immediate problem was the inserts were cast.
the second thing I was trying to show was engine functioning and integrity in environs of 1.4 lambda is a huge challenge

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vorticism
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Re: The Road to the 50% Thermally Efficient F1 Internal Combustion Engine

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It's too late, you've piqued interest. If not a Dunston then... some proprietary work? A sliding valve maybe?

johnny comelately
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Re: The Road to the 50% Thermally Efficient F1 Internal Combustion Engine

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vorticism wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:54 pm
It's too late, you've peaked interest. If not a Dunston then... some proprietary work? A sliding valve maybe?
Rotary.
I'd rather have peak interest in the F1 engines LOL
So if I may, the 3.5 bar coolant pressure gives a boiling point of 135 C ??
Giving a coolant temp of 115C maybe

J.A.W.
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Re: The Road to the 50% Thermally Efficient F1 Internal Combustion Engine

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johnny comelately wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:01 am
vorticism wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:54 pm
It's too late, you've peaked interest. If not a Dunston then... some proprietary work? A sliding valve maybe?
Rotary.
I'd rather have peak interest in the F1 engines LOL
So if I may, the 3.5 bar coolant pressure gives a boiling point of 135 C ??
Giving a coolant temp of 115C maybe
Maybe this will pique your interest, 120C boiling point @ ambient pressure, Glycerine-based:

https://888chemicals.com.au/wp-content/ ... t_MSDS.pdf
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

johnny comelately
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Re: The Road to the 50% Thermally Efficient F1 Internal Combustion Engine

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J.A.W. wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:43 am
johnny comelately wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:01 am
vorticism wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:54 pm
It's too late, you've peaked interest. If not a Dunston then... some proprietary work? A sliding valve maybe?
Rotary.
I'd rather have peak interest in the F1 engines LOL
So if I may, the 3.5 bar coolant pressure gives a boiling point of 135 C ??
Giving a coolant temp of 115C maybe
Maybe this will pique your interest, 120C boiling point @ ambient pressure, Glycerine-based:

https://888chemicals.com.au/wp-content/ ... t_MSDS.pdf
Interesting it is for beer (making)!
Is there a rule in F1 for coolant type??

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vorticism
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Re: The Road to the 50% Thermally Efficient F1 Internal Combustion Engine

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johnny comelately wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:56 am

Interesting it is for beer (making)!
Is there a rule in F1 for coolant type??
New rule: all fuels must be edible. Spirits and cooking oils only. Walnut oil vs vodka. Avocado oil vs cachaca. Olive oil vs ouzo.

johnny comelately
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Re: The Road to the 50% Thermally Efficient F1 Internal Combustion Engine

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vorticism wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:01 am
johnny comelately wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:56 am

Interesting it is for beer (making)!
Is there a rule in F1 for coolant type??
New rule: all fuels must be edible. Spirits and cooking oils only. Walnut oil vs vodka. Avocado oil vs cachaca. Olive oil vs ouzo.
I do like the way you think :wink:

johnny comelately
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Re: The Road to the 50% Thermally Efficient F1 Internal Combustion Engine

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Any header tank used on the car with a water based coolant must be fitted with an FIA approved pressure relief valve which is set to a maximum of 3.75 bar gauge pressure.....
my mistake on the 3.5 bar

any input on the coolant temp???

gruntguru
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Re: The Road to the 50% Thermally Efficient F1 Internal Combustion Engine

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As high as possible while keeping:
- Temp of aluminium alloy parts
- Lube temp
- Detonation
. . . . .under control.
je suis charlie

johnny comelately
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Re: The Road to the 50% Thermally Efficient F1 Internal Combustion Engine

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On the performance side, I still am thinking it is to reduce the quench affect.
At this stage I will stick with the 115 C.
Along with the aid in atomisation (is that old word still allowed?) and hence temp drop.

If anyone has access to a university subscription, this is sort of relevant:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/44632864

johnny comelately
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Re: The Road to the 50% Thermally Efficient F1 Internal Combustion Engine

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With this design as the status quo, imagine where young designers will take us when they dont carry the bias from the last millenium.

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vorticism
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Re: The Road to the 50% Thermally Efficient F1 Internal Combustion Engine

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johnny comelately wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:03 pm
With this design as the status quo, imagine where young designers will take us when they dont carry the bias from the last millenium.
Bias is inevitable, and history is only escaped via ignorance.

I don't think the current F1 engines will be a standard outside of top shelf motorsport. The rules force niche solutions which don't seem to be in line with automakers nor the less monied majority of motorsport activity. A fascinating novelty, yes, always, but as a benchmark I'm not sure.