A post EV era

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Cold Fussion
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Re: A post EV era

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vorticism wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:18 pm
What's better for getting VC money? Fusion research or a smartphone app startup. Asking for a friend.
How does that apply to Wendelstein 7-X?

gruntguru
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Re: A post EV era

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Andres125sx wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:42 am
gruntguru wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:18 am

Meanwhile, the low-hanging fruit in energy generation and industry remains untouched.
What do you mean?
https://www.worldenergydata.org/world-e ... eneration/
Scroll down to "TRENDS" and show me how an arbitrary ban of hypercars or F1 racing is any kind of solution.

Image

Note that fossil fuels only declined in the last year and only because total electricity declined (covid).
je suis charlie

Greg Locock
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Re: A post EV era

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While we're trying to save the world, More negativity. A lab set up by our national scientific research organisation tests domestic battery systems. Oh dear. This is directly relevant to me as our off grid house can't afford to have batteries that don't work - we're on AGM lead acids at the moment.

https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blogbatt ... al-report/

Sorry you'll have to put with his sense of humo(u)r.

And on a bigger scale

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-28/ ... /100496688

The results from the Powerwalls in the first link, and the implications of the second one, do make me wonder about Tesla battery chemistry.

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Andres125sx
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Re: A post EV era

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gruntguru wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:22 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:42 am
gruntguru wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:18 am

Meanwhile, the low-hanging fruit in energy generation and industry remains untouched.
What do you mean?
https://www.worldenergydata.org/world-e ... eneration/
Scroll down to "TRENDS" and show me how an arbitrary ban of hypercars or F1 racing is any kind of solution.

https://i.imgur.com/Vhc29OW.png

Note that fossil fuels only declined in the last year and only because total electricity declined (covid).
Who said that is the solution? What I said is we need to stop emissions, not making a new system wich allows free pollution if you pay for it. Proposing that at this point is completely senseless and reckless, as it invite people to think money can compensate anything, wich is exactly the mentality wich brought us to this point #-o

My question was about your comment about the low hanging fruit remaining untouched. What low hanging fruit remains untouched?

DChemTech
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Re: A post EV era

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Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:01 am
gruntguru wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:22 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:42 am
What do you mean?
https://www.worldenergydata.org/world-e ... eneration/
Scroll down to "TRENDS" and show me how an arbitrary ban of hypercars or F1 racing is any kind of solution.

https://i.imgur.com/Vhc29OW.png

Note that fossil fuels only declined in the last year and only because total electricity declined (covid).
Who said that is the solution? What I said is we need to stop emissions, not making a new system wich allows free pollution if you pay for it. Proposing that at this point is completely senseless and reckless, as it invite people to think money can compensate anything, wich is exactly the mentality wich brought us to this point #-o

My question was about your comment about the low hanging fruit remaining untouched. What low hanging fruit remains untouched?
I think we will remain in disagreement about the carbon levy; I see it as a useful measure in transitioning lifestyle while raising funds to avoid necessary measures (again, if done correctly, and not used as a general tax to fill gaps in the general budget).

But, I am not completely against some bans and top down regulation. 10 years or so ago I would not have found such measures necessary given a good carbon levy, but it's too late to just depend on steering the market to fair competition. Excesses should be removed, and top down control over large infrastructure is to some degree needed. So, i am not against focusing on EV only for the consumer car market, to focus on a single 'fuel' infrastructure. And I would be fine with removing excesses (e.g. super/hypercars, hummers, etc.)

I guess that's where a lot of the low hanging fruit is: not in generating electricity, but in avoiding wastage. We could easily get rid of terrace heating, excess airco, lit commercial signs outside of opening hours (and excessive lighting/heating/cooling in closed buildings), etc, without making more than a marginal dent in our lifestyle.

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Zynerji
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Re: A post EV era

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I guess my last question on this is if there is a tipping point going the other way. Like if 300mpg gasoline engines were commercialized, would that lower emissions to an acceptable level, or are we at the point where it's now EV vs. Evil Oil?

Tommy Cookers
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Re: A post EV era

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DChemTech wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:37 am
[I guess that's where a lot of the low hanging fruit is: not in generating electricity, but in avoiding wastage. We could easily get rid of terrace heating, excess airco, lit commercial signs outside of opening hours (and excessive lighting/heating/cooling in closed buildings), etc, without making more than a marginal dent in our lifestyle.
100% wrong
but yes politically beneficial to the legislators and to the legislated

as ever

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Zynerji
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Re: A post EV era

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:16 pm
DChemTech wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:37 am
[I guess that's where a lot of the low hanging fruit is: not in generating electricity, but in avoiding wastage. We could easily get rid of terrace heating, excess airco, lit commercial signs outside of opening hours (and excessive lighting/heating/cooling in closed buildings), etc, without making more than a marginal dent in our lifestyle.
100% wrong
but yes politically beneficial to the legislators and to the legislated

as ever
I'm guessing the mass movement from incandescent light bulbs to LED has made a dramatic change to electrical demand all by itself...

DChemTech
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Re: A post EV era

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:16 pm
DChemTech wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:37 am
[I guess that's where a lot of the low hanging fruit is: not in generating electricity, but in avoiding wastage. We could easily get rid of terrace heating, excess airco, lit commercial signs outside of opening hours (and excessive lighting/heating/cooling in closed buildings), etc, without making more than a marginal dent in our lifestyle.
100% wrong
but yes politically beneficial to the legislators and to the legislated

as ever
Care to elaborate?
FYI, I am not making any claims on the amount it would save.

Tommy Cookers
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Re: A post EV era

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the first sentence says wte 'there's a lot of wastage' - and so does the second
but there isn't - in absolute terms

(in typical countries) there's far more wastage in absolute terms in domestic and commercial heating
given there could be a threefold reduction in heat consumption via a threefold reduction in heat loss to environment ...
and given that heating (in typical countries) uses more energy than does electricity production

and heating is c.90% fossil-fueled

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vorticism
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Re: A post EV era

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As it relates. In California they would gaslight the constituency with save-water propaganda despite residential in home use accounting for 1-2% of water consumption, the balance being the obvious sectors of manufacturing, business, and agriculture. There was a period when people were so gaslit that restaurants would no longer serve tap water for free. Plastic grocery bags in some cities are taxes .1-.25 $ over a trivial amount of plastic--it is a plain tax revenue grab.
Paper straws meme was forced to similar aims; plastic straws represent perhaps .00005 - .0000005 % of global petrochemical use. Armchair estimate.

The more important question as it relates to this thread: What is the aim of a culture or politburo who behaves in this way? Lying, obfuscating, deceiving, or at least, neurotic overreaction.

DChemTech
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Re: A post EV era

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:19 pm
the first sentence says wte 'there's a lot of wastage' - and so does the second
but there isn't - in absolute terms

(in typical countries) there's far more wastage in absolute terms in domestic and commercial heating
given there could be a threefold reduction in heat consumption via a threefold reduction in heat loss to environment ...
and given that heating (in typical countries) uses more energy than does electricity production

and heating is c.90% fossil-fueled
Well, it said 'there is (I guess) a lot of low hanging fruit in wastage'. The examples I named are by no means an exhaustive list; inefficient heating would certainly belong there as well. Running an airco at 19 deg C with doors open fits in the same category in a way though. And even if the absolute contribution there is smaller, all bits help - my point was that these are very easy to implement measures, with very little impact on our lifestyles. Proper isolation of homes is definitly a big thing to tackle, but not as easy to implement everywhere.

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Zynerji
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Re: A post EV era

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vorticism wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:45 pm
As it relates. In California they would gaslight the constituency with save-water propaganda despite residential in home use accounting for 1-2% of water consumption, the balance being the obvious sectors of manufacturing, business, and agriculture. There was a period when people were so gaslit that restaurants would no longer serve tap water for free. Plastic grocery bags in some cities are taxes .1-.25 $ over a trivial amount of plastic--it is a plain tax revenue grab.
Paper straws meme was forced to similar aims; plastic straws represent perhaps .00005 - .0000005 % of global petrochemical use. Armchair estimate.

The more important question as it relates to this thread: What is the aim of a culture or politburo who behaves in this way? Lying, obfuscating, deceiving, or at least, neurotic overreaction.

I read that almond farms use the vast majority of water in California. Maybe just changing to a different food to grow on those farms would solve most of their issues.

Fulcrum
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Re: A post EV era

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vorticism wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:45 pm
As it relates. In California they would gaslight the constituency with save-water propaganda despite residential in home use accounting for 1-2% of water consumption, the balance being the obvious sectors of manufacturing, business, and agriculture. There was a period when people were so gaslit that restaurants would no longer serve tap water for free. Plastic grocery bags in some cities are taxes .1-.25 $ over a trivial amount of plastic--it is a plain tax revenue grab.
Paper straws meme was forced to similar aims; plastic straws represent perhaps .00005 - .0000005 % of global petrochemical use. Armchair estimate.

The more important question as it relates to this thread: What is the aim of a culture or politburo who behaves in this way? Lying, obfuscating, deceiving, or at least, neurotic overreaction.
Control.

Or to apply some marketing spin, compliance.

DChemTech
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Re: A post EV era

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Fulcrum wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:59 pm
vorticism wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:45 pm
As it relates. In California they would gaslight the constituency with save-water propaganda despite residential in home use accounting for 1-2% of water consumption, the balance being the obvious sectors of manufacturing, business, and agriculture. There was a period when people were so gaslit that restaurants would no longer serve tap water for free. Plastic grocery bags in some cities are taxes .1-.25 $ over a trivial amount of plastic--it is a plain tax revenue grab.
Paper straws meme was forced to similar aims; plastic straws represent perhaps .00005 - .0000005 % of global petrochemical use. Armchair estimate.

The more important question as it relates to this thread: What is the aim of a culture or politburo who behaves in this way? Lying, obfuscating, deceiving, or at least, neurotic overreaction.
Control.

Or to apply some marketing spin, compliance.
Of maybe, just maybe, giving us a fighting chance at a future where we keep at least a decent chunk of our society intact, instead of one where everyone scrambles to latch on to their 'rightful excesses'al and many lose out in the process?

Sure, not all measures will be effective and some may be counterproductive. I have strong doubts whether the increased energy usage for paper cup production weighs up to the avoided plastic waste and there are many more such examples. But perhaps such things are more due to a shortage of engineers and quantative skillsets in politics and legislation, that due to some conspiratorial population control scheme.