2022 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, June 17 - 19

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ispano6
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Re: 2022 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, June 17 - 19

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dialtone wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:07 pm
chrisc90 wrote:
fritticaldi wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:00 pm
The fact that Sainz had the fastest lap of the race is very indicative of something. The Ferrari is still a force to be reckoned with. Red Bull are not bullet proof. Checo's gremlins is a testimony of that.
He was probably helped along with a huge tow from Max with DRS though.
If VER was faster he would have gapped like he did in baku and other races. He wasn't faster today but won anyway, which is a good skill to have.
Max's tires were 6-7 laps older and the safety car bunched the pack, otherwise Max probably would have had a 5s margin. Max was supreme in sector 1 and always pulled a gap between DRS zones. Max was in fact fastest over the span of the race where he had one stop under non safety car conditions and had no DRS for the last 10 or so laps.

Watto
Watto
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Re: 2022 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, June 17 - 19

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dialtone wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:07 pm
chrisc90 wrote:
fritticaldi wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:00 pm
The fact that Sainz had the fastest lap of the race is very indicative of something. The Ferrari is still a force to be reckoned with. Red Bull are not bullet proof. Checo's gremlins is a testimony of that.
He was probably helped along with a huge tow from Max with DRS though.
If VER was faster he would have gapped like he did in baku and other races. He wasn't faster today but won anyway, which is a good skill to have.
Would agree wit that though not sure Sainz was ever that close to overtaking him either Max seemed to know were he was was pretty well too.

But Sainz wasn't really making any real ground on Max after the first stop either with 11/12 lap younger tyres 21 laps before Max had his 2nd stop and Sainz made up 3/4 seconds in all that time,


As you said Max wasn't able to pull away was a good indication add Max was likely managing his tyres a little too after the restart did the same a few races ago iirc, had someone on his tail after a restart but seemed to be a mix of managing his tyres after a restart, and whoever was behind him, after that he took off fairly well.


But, full credit to Sainz too stuck with him far better than I was expecting.

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wogx
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Re: 2022 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, June 17 - 19

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After the podium ceremony, the Red Bull team could not return to the garage as it was searched by police using a trained dog. #F1pl #EchaPadoku
Anyone has more info about that situation?

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Shrieker
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Re: 2022 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, June 17 - 19

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Nando didn't defend against Max cause it was a foregone conclusion.

The same was true when Ham caught him. He weaved in front of him too, once again showing he's a sore loser who never got over 2007.

Ffs man. It's been 15 years, how salty can one get...
Education is that which allows a nation free, independent, reputable life, and function as a high society; or it condemns it to captivity and poverty.
-Atatürk

Shal_Leg16
Shal_Leg16
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Re: 2022 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, June 17 - 19

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dialtone wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:07 pm
chrisc90 wrote:
fritticaldi wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:00 pm
The fact that Sainz had the fastest lap of the race is very indicative of something. The Ferrari is still a force to be reckoned with. Red Bull are not bullet proof. Checo's gremlins is a testimony of that.
He was probably helped along with a huge tow from Max with DRS though.
If VER was faster he would have gapped like he did in baku and other races. He wasn't faster today but won anyway, which is a good skill to have.
Simple explanation is - Ferrari is faster on new tyres Not that it really destroys RB in that phase but can match and even beat them, its like 20-19. But ones tyre degradation kicks in Ferrari lose few tenths.

Second thing is the characteristics of both cars. Ferrari is faster in corners but RB is faster on streights. so ultimately RB can overtake Ferrari but its becomes difficult task for Ferrari to do the same as most of the overtaking happens on straights.

to sum it up... Ferrari can enjoy the qualy superiority but in race RB has all the advantage add that the sharp working by RB in pits is exceptional. Ferrari cant beat them with 3.7s and 5.4s pitstops.

lh13
lh13
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Re: 2022 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, June 17 - 19

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Shrieker wrote:how salty can one get...
You tell me...

dialtone
dialtone
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:31 am

Re: 2022 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, June 17 - 19

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ispano6 wrote:
dialtone wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:07 pm
chrisc90 wrote: He was probably helped along with a huge tow from Max with DRS though.
If VER was faster he would have gapped like he did in baku and other races. He wasn't faster today but won anyway, which is a good skill to have.
Max's tires were 6-7 laps older and the safety car bunched the pack, otherwise Max probably would have had a 5s margin. Max was supreme in sector 1 and always pulled a gap between DRS zones. Max was in fact fastest over the span of the race where he had one stop under non safety car conditions and had no DRS for the last 10 or so laps.
Hards that can last 40+ laps... There was no difference with Sainz.

dialtone
dialtone
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Re: 2022 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, June 17 - 19

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Watto wrote:
dialtone wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:07 pm
chrisc90 wrote: He was probably helped along with a huge tow from Max with DRS though.
If VER was faster he would have gapped like he did in baku and other races. He wasn't faster today but won anyway, which is a good skill to have.
Would agree wit that though not sure Sainz was ever that close to overtaking him either Max seemed to know were he was was pretty well too.

But Sainz wasn't really making any real ground on Max after the first stop either with 11/12 lap younger tyres 21 laps before Max had his 2nd stop and Sainz made up 3/4 seconds in all that time,


As you said Max wasn't able to pull away was a good indication add Max was likely managing his tyres a little too after the restart did the same a few races ago iirc, had someone on his tail after a restart but seemed to be a mix of managing his tyres after a restart, and whoever was behind him, after that he took off fairly well.


But, full credit to Sainz too stuck with him far better than I was expecting.
Sainz gained 3.5 seconds in 10 laps on Verstappen after his first stop. Sainz also gained on Verstappen after Alonso got out of the way.

There only laps where max was faster than sainz were the laps when max had new hards and sainz old mediums, or new hards vs old hards. A tyre difference was necessary for Max to be faster.

He really maximized his race result yesterday.

dialtone
dialtone
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Re: 2022 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, June 17 - 19

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Shal_Leg16 wrote:
dialtone wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:07 pm
chrisc90 wrote: He was probably helped along with a huge tow from Max with DRS though.
If VER was faster he would have gapped like he did in baku and other races. He wasn't faster today but won anyway, which is a good skill to have.
Simple explanation is - Ferrari is faster on new tyres Not that it really destroys RB in that phase but can match and even beat them, its like 20-19. But ones tyre degradation kicks in Ferrari lose few tenths.

Second thing is the characteristics of both cars. Ferrari is faster in corners but RB is faster on streights. so ultimately RB can overtake Ferrari but its becomes difficult task for Ferrari to do the same as most of the overtaking happens on straights.

to sum it up... Ferrari can enjoy the qualy superiority but in race RB has all the advantage add that the sharp working by RB in pits is exceptional. Ferrari cant beat them with 3.7s and 5.4s pitstops.
Fact free response.

Ferrari chewed the tyres so much that Lec was using 30 laps old mediums at the end of the race and was as fast as those in front of him with new hards.

Charles also had a 41 lap long stint on hards, that he was forced to pit by ocon that was too slow but since his hards were 20 laps younger he still had good traction. Without ocon charles was going to arrive 3rd thanks to SC and tire difference with the 2 Mercs.

Ferrari was the best race car today, fastest and easiest on tires. Sainz gained on Ver even when both of them were on mediums, it's why Ver went to pit on the first VSC, his tires were done and was losing time, while Sainz went on for another 11 or so laps. And sainz gained over 3.5s on Ver on the hards.

Verstappen said he wasn't sure he was going to catch sainz today, without the SC, even if sainz had used hards on and he had new hards.

Watto
Watto
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Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2022 2:12 pm

Re: 2022 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, June 17 - 19

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dialtone wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:05 am
Watto wrote:
dialtone wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:07 pm

If VER was faster he would have gapped like he did in baku and other races. He wasn't faster today but won anyway, which is a good skill to have.
Would agree wit that though not sure Sainz was ever that close to overtaking him either Max seemed to know were he was was pretty well too.

But Sainz wasn't really making any real ground on Max after the first stop either with 11/12 lap younger tyres 21 laps before Max had his 2nd stop and Sainz made up 3/4 seconds in all that time,


As you said Max wasn't able to pull away was a good indication add Max was likely managing his tyres a little too after the restart did the same a few races ago iirc, had someone on his tail after a restart but seemed to be a mix of managing his tyres after a restart, and whoever was behind him, after that he took off fairly well.


But, full credit to Sainz too stuck with him far better than I was expecting.
Sainz gained 3.5 seconds in 10 laps on Verstappen after his first stop. Sainz also gained on Verstappen after Alonso got out of the way.

There only laps where max was faster than sainz were the laps when max had new hards and sainz old mediums, or new hards vs old hards. A tyre difference was necessary for Max to be faster.

He really maximized his race result yesterday.
Lap 23 when Sainz cleared Alonso there was around a 9.2s gap, Max pitted on lap 43 for his 2nd stop the mini sector difference (depending where you take it 6-7 s (7 as Max was pulling into the pit lane from the telecast) 20 laps in clean air without a tow on newer tyres he gained around 2.5-3.5s. For sure Max wasn't pulling away but probably had no need to, and Sainz while gaining wasn't making massive ground, probably as Max's tyres went off he was starting to make more ground. I do think Sainz was slightly the faster of the two during the race but not by much of a margin.

dialtone
dialtone
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:31 am

Re: 2022 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, June 17 - 19

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Here's some data:

gap graph
Image

I don't see the case for Verstappen not pushing, he was gapping his team mate in Baku, no chance he's ok with a 4s gap to Sainz 2nd.
Sainz is clearly faster any time they are on the same tyre.

here's a cleaner look on it with lap times:
Image

In this graph you can see Sainz had even better tyre deg in his stints as the gap in lap time is smaller at start than at the end.

Last 10+ laps of the race for the top 3:
Image

Sainz is on average 15kph faster than Verstappen on main straight, 20kph+ in at least 2 laps.
Ham lifting and coasting at the hairpin, 0.1s cost

Sainz had to brake earlier in each corners due to being so close to Max and losing stopping power, except in the hairpin where Sainz tries to take a different line and not lose braking power, however it compromises his minimum speed even further.

Image

This was last lap ALO v BOT. Alonso braking super late in each corner to prevent lounges, but he compromises the hairpin and his changes of direction in the straight force Bottas to brake. Clear as day penalty.

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Andres125sx
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Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: 2022 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, June 17 - 19

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siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:52 pm
Mchamilton wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:48 pm
Alonsismo wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:46 pm
that penalty its just another --- joke from the maFIA
Why is it? Its pretty well established that you can't drive like that in F1
Alonso after the hype yesterday fell like a stone today. The alpine didn't have any pace, however, his antics after he lost out to ocon was hilarious. He was saying "I need to be ahead, I was 100 times faster than him" :lol: reminded me of his famous "I brought 7 tenths" claim I'm 2007 :D and in that desperation he blocked bottas very hard...he knew exactly what he was doing.

Qualifying 2nd with an Alpine is hype? #-o

He was saying he was faster than Ocon, because he was much faster than Ocon. You really didn´t notice?

Penalty was deserved, I guess he was frustrated after Alpine huge mistake wich probably did cost him a podium

SirBastianVettel
SirBastianVettel
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Re: 2022 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, June 17 - 19

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dialtone wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:00 am
Here's some data:
I don’t have anything to add (at this point), just wanted to thank you for the contributions you make. =D>

lh13
lh13
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Re: 2022 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, June 17 - 19

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siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:52 pm
Mchamilton wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:48 pm
Alonsismo wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:46 pm
that penalty its just another --- joke from the maFIA
Why is it? Its pretty well established that you can't drive like that in F1
Alonso after the hype yesterday fell like a stone today. The alpine didn't have any pace, however, his antics after he lost out to ocon was hilarious. He was saying "I need to be ahead, I was 100 times faster than him" :lol: reminded me of his famous "I brought 7 tenths" claim I'm 2007 :D and in that desperation he blocked bottas very hard...he knew exactly what he was doing.
Feel free to keep talking like this, but next time, do not cry like a kid, like you usually do, when someone says anything against your favourite driver.

Michelangelo
Michelangelo
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Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:35 pm

Re: 2022 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, June 17 - 19

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There are a lot of Alonso haters out there as well, as much as Hamilton ones. Strange those two drivers managed to create two opposite fan bases.