TD039

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Sevach
Sevach
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Re: TD039

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vorticism
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Re: TD039

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lol. This TD always seemed speculative to me; have been trying to wrap my head around it. imo the gains would be miniscule; flexing the plank (which was the nature of this TD; floor edge flex and floor edge static height are another matter) could have only been done a few milimeters at most in any direction if you consider how tightly packaged everything is. Relative to a vehicle that is ~ 2k x 5k mm in plan. Press can't ignore a jargon term like 'flexing floor.' Even months ago, Horner was joking about this and porpoising by saying other teams can simply raise their ride height. Ultimately I think it was about Merc addressing the other teams with this, not RB. Ferrari is their main target this season.

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Quantum
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Re: TD039

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Sevach wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:07 am
Rub it in Christian!!!!

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1010901/1 ... -12-finish
The plank ruling was nothing to do with toto.
The bounce measurement device was in relation to stop a problem affecting all teams. Some more than others.

Tami on twitter had some great insights, which said at Spa all teams were forced to raise their ride heights.
Some slightly more than others but generally all in ballpark.

However, due to conceptual variation it mean some would be affected more than others, and RB appear to have less issue with it, as well as not needing much suspension rate adjustment relative to Mercedes and Ferrari.

Horner can well say what he likes, as he usually does, but thanking Toto is just another dig the sport could well do without.
"Interplay of triads"

Cs98
Cs98
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Re: TD039

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Quantum wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:02 pm
Sevach wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:07 am
Rub it in Christian!!!!

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1010901/1 ... -12-finish
The plank ruling was nothing to do with toto.
The bounce measurement device was in relation to stop a problem affecting all teams. Some more than others.

Tami on twitter had some great insights, which said at Spa all teams were forced to raise their ride heights.
Some slightly more than others but generally all in ballpark.

However, due to conceptual variation it mean some would be affected more than others, and RB appear to have less issue with it, as well as not needing much suspension rate adjustment relative to Mercedes and Ferrari.

Horner can well say what he likes, as he usually does, but thanking Toto is just another dig the sport could well do without.
Toto and his crew have not stopped reminding us about the “flexi-floor TD” since the FIA made it public. Their initial “shock” and subsequent media campaign reminding us how much slower RB and Ferrari should be is what has illicited this reaction. Merc used it as misdirection to take the attention away from their underperforming car. Now that it proved to be a red herring, a bit of jabbing was inevitable.

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Sieper
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Re: TD039

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Quantum wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:02 pm
Sevach wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:07 am
Rub it in Christian!!!!

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1010901/1 ... -12-finish
The plank ruling was nothing to do with toto.
The bounce measurement device was in relation to stop a problem affecting all teams. Some more than others.

Tami on twitter had some great insights, which said at Spa all teams were forced to raise their ride heights.
Some slightly more than others but generally all in ballpark.

However, due to conceptual variation it mean some would be affected more than others, and RB appear to have less issue with it, as well as not needing much suspension rate adjustment relative to Mercedes and Ferrari.

Horner can well say what he likes, as he usually does, but thanking Toto is just another dig the sport could well do without.
So Toto, George (very active) and Lewis (a bit) can unleash a storm of insinuation, and when it then pans out that the only thing Horner ever said, it will not affect us much, seems to be true a small little dig we can do without?

I am not objective as he is part of the team I support but I always like his dry, snarky, British humor.

Ok. So could we do without the PR campaign by Merc as well? Or was that fair game.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

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Big Tea
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One would almost think they are running an advert for a show on Sky or Netflix :mrgreen:
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

mendis
mendis
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Re: TD039

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Quantum wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:02 pm
Sevach wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:07 am
Rub it in Christian!!!!

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1010901/1 ... -12-finish
The plank ruling was nothing to do with toto.
The bounce measurement device was in relation to stop a problem affecting all teams. Some more than others.

Tami on twitter had some great insights, which said at Spa all teams were forced to raise their ride heights.
Some slightly more than others but generally all in ballpark.

However, due to conceptual variation it mean some would be affected more than others, and RB appear to have less issue with it, as well as not needing much suspension rate adjustment relative to Mercedes and Ferrari.

Horner can well say what he likes, as he usually does, but thanking Toto is just another dig the sport could well do without.
It's true I guess. Toto has nothing to do with the TD, other than he was happy in conceiving that Red Bull and Ferrari are bending rules and that the new TD would help them. He shouldn't get that credit. Horner has every reason to be happy that the FIA has effectively put Ferrari back. Horner would now be hoping that Toto and Mercedes can come up with a new finding.

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Quantum
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Re: TD039

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Sieper wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:18 pm
Quantum wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:02 pm
Sevach wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:07 am
Rub it in Christian!!!!

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1010901/1 ... -12-finish
The plank ruling was nothing to do with toto.
The bounce measurement device was in relation to stop a problem affecting all teams. Some more than others.

Tami on twitter had some great insights, which said at Spa all teams were forced to raise their ride heights.
Some slightly more than others but generally all in ballpark.

However, due to conceptual variation it mean some would be affected more than others, and RB appear to have less issue with it, as well as not needing much suspension rate adjustment relative to Mercedes and Ferrari.

Horner can well say what he likes, as he usually does, but thanking Toto is just another dig the sport could well do without.
So Toto, George (very active) and Lewis (a bit) can unleash a storm of insinuation, and when it then pans out that the only thing Horner ever said, it will not affect us much, seems to be true a small little dig we can do without?

I am not objective as he is part of the team I support but I always like his dry, snarky, British humor.

Ok. So could we do without the PR campaign by Merc as well? Or was that fair game.
Humour you say? Guess that's subjective....

Here's the problem.
Every time any of them go in front of a camera, a Question will be put to them.
It's not as if Merc or RB hold press conferences to make a point. Like when was Russell ever thrust in the spotlight last year? Now he's having an opinion on everything apparently, when most of what's put to him is leading or misconstrued.
As it always was.
From what Toto was saying is that bouncing was prevalent, and that the FIA needed to do something.
That has happened.
The motive surrounding that was to alleviate a problem they experienced form the porpoising phenomena.

Enter the TD and RB are 1.8 seconds up the road. Merc etc aren't porpoising dangerously and fair dinkum TD worked.
That's how it goes.

Horner appearing in front of camera to add some salt saying "thanks Toto" after winning the race from 14th is what it is.
Some think it's hilarious. For me, the last time someone took a win this badly was probably Ron Dennis in the Ferrari days.
"Interplay of triads"

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Quantum
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Re: TD039

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mendis wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:15 am
It's true I guess. Toto has nothing to do with the TD, other than he was happy in conceiving that Red Bull and Ferrari are bending rules and that the new TD would help them. He shouldn't get that credit. Horner has every reason to be happy that the FIA has effectively put Ferrari back. Horner would now be hoping that Toto and Mercedes can come up with a new finding.
I think you are conflating 2 different things.

The TD for for force measurement and the plank ruling are separate. Toto or Mercedes didn't "find" anything.
The plank issue was found by the FIA and acted upon thus.
The bouncing measurement was put into place because most teams were getting high vertical G loads. If it was only Mercedes, it would be so much easier to point the finger.
Were they most vocal? sure. But don't confuse that with there being no issue up and down the pitlane.
"Interplay of triads"

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Sieper
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Re: TD039

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Quantum wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:54 am
Sieper wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:18 pm
Quantum wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:02 pm


The plank ruling was nothing to do with toto.
The bounce measurement device was in relation to stop a problem affecting all teams. Some more than others.

Tami on twitter had some great insights, which said at Spa all teams were forced to raise their ride heights.
Some slightly more than others but generally all in ballpark.

However, due to conceptual variation it mean some would be affected more than others, and RB appear to have less issue with it, as well as not needing much suspension rate adjustment relative to Mercedes and Ferrari.

Horner can well say what he likes, as he usually does, but thanking Toto is just another dig the sport could well do without.
So Toto, George (very active) and Lewis (a bit) can unleash a storm of insinuation, and when it then pans out that the only thing Horner ever said, it will not affect us much, seems to be true a small little dig we can do without?

I am not objective as he is part of the team I support but I always like his dry, snarky, British humor.

Ok. So could we do without the PR campaign by Merc as well? Or was that fair game.
Humour you say? Guess that's subjective....

Here's the problem.
Every time any of them go in front of a camera, a Question will be put to them.
It's not as if Merc or RB hold press conferences to make a point. Like when was Russell ever thrust in the spotlight last year? Now he's having an opinion on everything apparently, when most of what's put to him is leading or misconstrued.
As it always was.
From what Toto was saying is that bouncing was prevalent, and that the FIA needed to do something.
That has happened.
The motive surrounding that was to alleviate a problem they experienced form the porpoising phenomena.

Enter the TD and RB are 1.8 seconds up the road. Merc etc aren't porpoising dangerously and fair dinkum TD worked.
That's how it goes.

Horner appearing in front of camera to add some salt saying "thanks Toto" after winning the race from 14th is what it is.
Some think it's hilarious. For me, the last time someone took a win this badly was probably Ron Dennis in the Ferrari days.
I don't think you will find many people describing Horner as hilarious, dry and snarky is what I feel he is, in true british fashion. And yes, he did counter a point that needed to be countered, that is his role.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

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Quantum
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Re: TD039

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Sieper wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:22 am
I don't think you will find many people describing Horner as hilarious, dry and snarky is what I feel he is, in true british fashion. And yes, he did counter a point that needed to be countered, that is his role.
"he needed to" :lol:
"Interplay of triads"

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Sieper
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Re: TD039

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Quantum wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:31 am
Sieper wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:22 am
I don't think you will find many people describing Horner as hilarious, dry and snarky is what I feel he is, in true british fashion. And yes, he did counter a point that needed to be countered, that is his role.
"he needed to" :lol:
Is it possible to have a civil conversation without this kind of stuff?
Controversy does not have a short memory.

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Quantum
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Re: TD039

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Sieper wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:47 am
Quantum wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:31 am
Sieper wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:22 am
I don't think you will find many people describing Horner as hilarious, dry and snarky is what I feel he is, in true british fashion. And yes, he did counter a point that needed to be countered, that is his role.
"he needed to" :lol:
Is it possible to have a civil conversation without this kind of stuff?
I'm pointing out the hilarity of your made up team principle requirements. Civility is still maintained.
A team principle won a race from 14th and he NEEDED to defecate on a guy that poses no threat to him or his team.
Burnishing a crass comment as a job requirement is stretching it, and that's being polite.
As I've said, don't think such a dominant victory has been so poorly received by the winning principle since Dennis in the Ferrari/macca heyday.

But as you say, Horner is snarky, and that's what we come to expect.
"Interplay of triads"

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Big Tea
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Re: TD039

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Quantum wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 10:00 am
Sieper wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:47 am
Quantum wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:31 am


"he needed to" :lol:
Is it possible to have a civil conversation without this kind of stuff?
I'm pointing out the hilarity of your made up team principle requirements. Civility is still maintained.
A team principle won a race from 14th and he NEEDED to defecate on a guy that poses no threat to him or his team.
Burnishing a crass comment as a job requirement is stretching it, and that's being polite.
As I've said, don't think such a dominant victory has been so poorly received by the winning principle since Dennis in the Ferrari/macca heyday.

But as you say, Horner is snarky, and that's what we come to expect.
There is a (Brit) saying that someone can tell you to go to hell in such a way as you look forward to the trip.
Not sure he is at that level though
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

Sevach
Sevach
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Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:00 pm

Re: TD039

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mendis wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:15 am
It's true I guess. Toto has nothing to do with the TD, other than he was happy in conceiving that Red Bull and Ferrari are bending rules and that the new TD would help them. He shouldn't get that credit. Horner has every reason to be happy that the FIA has effectively put Ferrari back. Horner would now be hoping that Toto and Mercedes can come up with a new finding.
But he has, his team has been the driving force behind both the TDs.
First he was trying to get a minimum safe ride height rule implemented, this one backfired, the TD didn't come out as he wanted to.
Mercedes is also behind asking a clarification regarding the plank, and Mr Wolff went to the press and said he was "shocked" that some of his rivals were "abusing this blatant loophole", "contrary to the spirit of the rules"... you can search this btw.
Oficially he didn't mention which teams were those, behind closed doors Mercedes was telling the press Red Bull and Ferrari and even putting a number on it, 6mm, how they could accurately measure their guess of what other cars were doing beats me...
Not Wolff, but... you can add George Russell piling on and saying "for sure" Ferrari and Red Bull were abusing it, and it wouldn't help them.

The firing back is more than a little deserved.