2022 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 09 - 11

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Juzh
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Re: 2022 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 09 - 11

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organic wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:23 pm
hollus wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:13 pm
I’ll try a pic tonight. But as said above: SC on track in front of Russel from lap 48.
I've just checked the onboard of Russell at lap 48 on F1tv and Russell is indeed behind the SC:

F1tv blocks my screenshots so idk how to acquire proof
Disable hardware acceleration in browser if youre on pc.

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organic
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Re: 2022 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 09 - 11

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Juzh wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:24 pm
organic wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:23 pm
hollus wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:13 pm
I’ll try a pic tonight. But as said above: SC on track in front of Russel from lap 48.
I've just checked the onboard of Russell at lap 48 on F1tv and Russell is indeed behind the SC:

F1tv blocks my screenshots so idk how to acquire proof
Disable hardware acceleration in browser if youre on pc.
Thank you

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organic
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Re: 2022 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 09 - 11

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cliffgamerz wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:00 pm
Cs98 wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:29 am
cliffgamerz wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:10 am
I re-watched the last part of the race again to see what went wrong, on lap 47 Ricardo came to halt on entry to second Lesmo corner where there was no escape route to clear the car by marshals, so it should have been a double waved yellows and or virtual safety car should have been put up immediately, but instead a yellow on the second sector was put up for full 1 lap or to be precise around a full minute to change status to FULL SAFETY CAR on OSD only and not VIRTUAL SAFETY CAR which was on lap 48, but safety car wasn't out on track till lap 51 started and it caught Russell and not Max!? Now to my surprise what happened between lap 48 till 51 where was safety car and no media or people are discussing this matter, on sky commentary on Karun questioned on lap 50 where is safety car on track but it was still not on track but on pit-lane. FIA seriously needs to answer this procedure as it was not according to normal standard procedure, last year Abu Dhabi is a different thing and its not related to what happened here, the system is flawed and i was surprised no teams nor media or fans as discussing this topic. Also it wasn't a crash and no debris or damage to barrier was there to halt the safe restart to race which was bizarre, at least one lap racing was possible because car was cleared off track at end of lap 51. All these careful observations were made by pausing the broadcast and taking notes, so anyone else can do the same to confirm my findings.

I can also understand the anger of Tifosi's shown at end of the race, but honestly it was so wrong of anyone to Boo at drivers for something they didn't have control at or even do anything wrong from their end, it is pathetic if the crowd threw foul language and hatred towards Max's family or team members, those people should be banned from entry to any F1 events or any events. To be just mad or angry at FIA for what happened is fair, but that doesn't mean doing death threats or calling names, instead it needs proper investigation and review like last years last race. Also i see people on this forum just show a hate towards other fans, so i never comment always,i just want to share my unbiased opinion and if anyone is offended by anything i say i will say sorry in advance as i don't intend to hurt anyone's feelings, we are just fans, let the drivers and teams do the fighting on track, lets just enjoy the races as they are as long as they are fair and fun to watch.
The safety car came out much earlier than lap 51. It’s just they didn’t film it. The timing was very poor because the SC came out right after Verstappen/Leclerc passed. And then they pitted on the next lap. Leading to a very long chase after the SC. So they caught the SC several laps after it came out.
It was only mentioned on HUD on TV overlay, the actual car maybe came out on lap 51, just re-watch the race and see on lap 51 the car exited the pits when camera caught safety car. i don't have the F1TV feed as its not available in my region to prove the same as that could prove that properly. If someone has that maybe they can share some views on it, and i am not saying you are wrong or i am right, its unclear until proven.
Image

Image

Lap 48, Russell behind SC

cliffgamerz
cliffgamerz
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Re: 2022 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 09 - 11

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organic wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:29 pm
cliffgamerz wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:00 pm
Cs98 wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:29 am


The safety car came out much earlier than lap 51. It’s just they didn’t film it. The timing was very poor because the SC came out right after Verstappen/Leclerc passed. And then they pitted on the next lap. Leading to a very long chase after the SC. So they caught the SC several laps after it came out.
It was only mentioned on HUD on TV overlay, the actual car maybe came out on lap 51, just re-watch the race and see on lap 51 the car exited the pits when camera caught safety car. i don't have the F1TV feed as its not available in my region to prove the same as that could prove that properly. If someone has that maybe they can share some views on it, and i am not saying you are wrong or i am right, its unclear until proven.
https://i.imgur.com/pMCUX7E.png

https://i.imgur.com/dFyW4az.png

Lap 48, Russell behind SC
Thank you for confirming Organic and clearing the doubts, it means a lot to know about this information, hopefully F1TV will be made available to many regions so this wouldn't have been necessary in the first place to bother someone else. And i apologize for doubting the procedure which took place on Sunday, it was just bad timing then of when it joined the track and how everyone pitted and which created a huge gap to the lead pack to converge.

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hollus
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Re: 2022 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 09 - 11

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Not just bad timing. The SC forgot that its function is to collect the pack, it was going insanely fast.
Rivals, not enemies.

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Sieper
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Re: 2022 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 09 - 11

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Probably some harsh words have been spoken internally, or at least, feedback was given. We missed out on the restart for no good reason, if the execution had been better we could have made it.

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a1b2i3r45
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Re: 2022 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 09 - 11

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How about making a new rule of any safety car situation in the last 5 laps results in a red flag and standing restart? So that everyone can be on the same tyres and in correct positions.

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chrisc90
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Re: 2022 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 09 - 11

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There’s no need for a red flag unless the chaos is bad enough it warrants a red flag.

Red flag isn’t there to create a last lap showdown,

LM10
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Re: 2022 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 09 - 11

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chrisc90 wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:48 pm
There’s no need for a red flag unless the chaos is bad enough it warrants a red flag.

Red flag isn’t there to create a last lap showdown,
If the officials are incompetent enough to take as long as 5 laps for a simple incident to be cleared, there absolutely is need for a red flag.

Edax
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Re: 2022 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 09 - 11

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bluechris wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:00 am
For me? whatever huppens in the last 10 laps must be RED Flagged without the ability to change tyres. Either way noone had count to pit in the last 10 laps so the only thing huppening really is all the field to come together and we get also a standing start again which is great.
Liberty want the races to finish under green flag, we also as fans of F1 want that even if its bad for someone who had disapear in the distance before the Red Flag. Its the best scenario in my mind to keep everyone happy and have racing till the end.
You mean like green-white-checkered in nascar? It has its advantages but I also see some drawbacks.

One is you have to allocate a mandatory fuel reserve to be able to deal with the extra laps which would add a few kg’s to the cars which are already pretty heavy. Otherwise nobody would make the finish.

And in some aspects it is also not completely fair. You already see how difficult it is to bring a white tire back after a SC or VSC. With a red flag they would not stand a chance. You could easily drop from 1 to 10 in one lap, just because you were on the wrong tire.

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Zynerji
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Re: 2022 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 09 - 11

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Edax wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:24 pm
bluechris wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:00 am
For me? whatever huppens in the last 10 laps must be RED Flagged without the ability to change tyres. Either way noone had count to pit in the last 10 laps so the only thing huppening really is all the field to come together and we get also a standing start again which is great.
Liberty want the races to finish under green flag, we also as fans of F1 want that even if its bad for someone who had disapear in the distance before the Red Flag. Its the best scenario in my mind to keep everyone happy and have racing till the end.
You mean like green-white-checkered in nascar? It has its advantages but I also see some drawbacks.

One is you have to allocate a mandatory fuel reserve to be able to deal with the extra laps which would add a few kg’s to the cars which are already pretty heavy. Otherwise nobody would make the finish.

And in some aspects it is also not completely fair. You already see how difficult it is to bring a white tire back after a SC or VSC. With a red flag they would not stand a chance. You could easily drop from 1 to 10 in one lap, just because you were on the wrong tire.
Red flag gets everyone on new tyres (if they have any left) with a standing restart, and a dash for the finish.

Would have fixed AD 2021 and Monza 2022.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2022 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 09 - 11

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Zynerji wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:40 pm
Edax wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:24 pm
bluechris wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:00 am
For me? whatever huppens in the last 10 laps must be RED Flagged without the ability to change tyres. Either way noone had count to pit in the last 10 laps so the only thing huppening really is all the field to come together and we get also a standing start again which is great.
Liberty want the races to finish under green flag, we also as fans of F1 want that even if its bad for someone who had disapear in the distance before the Red Flag. Its the best scenario in my mind to keep everyone happy and have racing till the end.
You mean like green-white-checkered in nascar? It has its advantages but I also see some drawbacks.

One is you have to allocate a mandatory fuel reserve to be able to deal with the extra laps which would add a few kg’s to the cars which are already pretty heavy. Otherwise nobody would make the finish.

And in some aspects it is also not completely fair. You already see how difficult it is to bring a white tire back after a SC or VSC. With a red flag they would not stand a chance. You could easily drop from 1 to 10 in one lap, just because you were on the wrong tire.
Red flag gets everyone on new tyres (if they have any left) with a standing restart, and a dash for the finish.

Would have fixed AD 2021 and Monza 2022.
What's the point of the rest of the race then? All that I request is the FIA consider if track cleanup and wave arounds are being completed in the most expedient way possible. In many cases, that doesn't seem to be the case.

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Sieper
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Re: 2022 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 09 - 11

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Exactly, if they just execute well there is no problem. Not saying it is easy, but this was a bad job.

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Mogster
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Re: 2022 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 09 - 11

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Edax wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:24 pm
bluechris wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:00 am
For me? whatever huppens in the last 10 laps must be RED Flagged without the ability to change tyres. Either way noone had count to pit in the last 10 laps so the only thing huppening really is all the field to come together and we get also a standing start again which is great.
Liberty want the races to finish under green flag, we also as fans of F1 want that even if its bad for someone who had disapear in the distance before the Red Flag. Its the best scenario in my mind to keep everyone happy and have racing till the end.
You mean like green-white-checkered in nascar? It has its advantages but I also see some drawbacks.

One is you have to allocate a mandatory fuel reserve to be able to deal with the extra laps which would add a few kg’s to the cars which are already pretty heavy. Otherwise nobody would make the finish.

And in some aspects it is also not completely fair. You already see how difficult it is to bring a white tire back after a SC or VSC. With a red flag they would not stand a chance. You could easily drop from 1 to 10 in one lap, just because you were on the wrong tire.
The BTCC adds laps under SC to the end of the race, to a maximum of 4 iirc. The teams fuel for race distance +4. F1 could do the similar, add SC laps to race distance within the last 10% of the race. Of course the teams would have to fuel for the maximum race distance possible.

Unnecessary red flags just feel gamey.

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chrisc90
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Re: 2022 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 09 - 11

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Mogster wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:15 pm
Edax wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:24 pm
bluechris wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:00 am
For me? whatever huppens in the last 10 laps must be RED Flagged without the ability to change tyres. Either way noone had count to pit in the last 10 laps so the only thing huppening really is all the field to come together and we get also a standing start again which is great.
Liberty want the races to finish under green flag, we also as fans of F1 want that even if its bad for someone who had disapear in the distance before the Red Flag. Its the best scenario in my mind to keep everyone happy and have racing till the end.
You mean like green-white-checkered in nascar? It has its advantages but I also see some drawbacks.

One is you have to allocate a mandatory fuel reserve to be able to deal with the extra laps which would add a few kg’s to the cars which are already pretty heavy. Otherwise nobody would make the finish.

And in some aspects it is also not completely fair. You already see how difficult it is to bring a white tire back after a SC or VSC. With a red flag they would not stand a chance. You could easily drop from 1 to 10 in one lap, just because you were on the wrong tire.
The BTCC adds laps under SC to the end of the race, to a maximum of 4 iirc. The teams fuel for race distance +4. F1 could do the similar, add SC laps to race distance within the last 10% of the race. Of course the teams would have to fuel for the maximum race distance possible.

Unnecessary red flags just feel gamey.
Exactly this! (I said the same on the SC car thread) 4laps of fuel probably is only a few kilos of fuel. That way the race is neutralised to a set number of laps, people can change tyres if they have a free stop (same as any other time in the race), we dont have a last lap shootout, theres no uncalled for red flags to reset the grid and lose the race from a bad start etc.

Its just a simple solution that is sooo easy to implement. You can guarantee the teams wouldnt even need 4 laps of fuel if they can go super fuel saving behind the safety car, so they might actually only need 3 additional laps of racing fuel.