2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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astracrazy wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:04 am
I think a lot of Merc/Lewis fans that believe everything that rolls out of Toto's mouth are going to be disappointed. Especially the ones who think last years championship will be handed to Lewis.
Does anyone think that will happen? At the most, Red Bull would lose their points but the drivers wouldn't - there is precedent for this in 2007, of course, where McLaren had their points removed but the drivers kept theirs. Realistically, the team will be fined.

Going forward, it seems to me that the best approach to overspending is to reduce the allowed budget going forward for any "naughty" team. For example, Team A overspends by $2m, so reduce their budget allowance by $2m for the next 3 years. That would focus the teams on not overspending as it would impact them for more years than they would gain from it.
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organic
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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FIA will release more info in 2hrs





Someone else says within next 2hrs


From the FIA they announce that they will provide information regarding compliance with the budget limit regulations within the next two hours.

GrizzleBoy
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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I have a feeling this will be an, "announcement of an announcement" type thing and not provide any solid information to anybody on any side.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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basti313 wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:45 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:13 am
Come to think of it.... RedBull was always suspiscious in 2021 the amount of developnent they were doing deep into the year!
Less than 1% over budget. Yes, one could see this, very obvious...
I guess it is more that RedBull is always suspicious for some.
tpe wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:30 am

This is completely different.
And it wasn't one team, it was one team that perfected an already exploited area.
When we discussed the cost cap here it was always "wait, what happens if the minor overspend is exploited". Even to the point that you may have to overspend to the minor infringement.
I do not see the teams exploiting it to be at big fault...my opinion was also that you may need to exploit also this grey area. The error is, that
- the penalty is not defined and harsh.
- the cost is not monitored "on the fly".

Now we are 10 months after the season and need to discuss a penalty which spoils the result and is too little for one side and too harsh for the other side.
Wait a second. Isn't this a bit hypocritical? The 1% is rumoured just as much as the 5% or 10% so why were prior reports bashed and this 1% figure held onto as if it has been confirmed, becauze it hasn't...

And as Ross Brawn said in 2019% breaching the rules is Sporting penalty so doesn't matter if 1% or 20% there should be dire consequences to the sporting results!
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johnny comelately
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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Read somewhere that for some of the American series they put a multiplier on the excess as a penalty and then distribute that to the other teams LOL

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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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https://f1i-autojournal-fr.translate.go ... r_pto=wapp
.
Aston Martin more heavily sanctioned than Red Bull?
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Verdict of the saga of capped budgets: heavy fine and sanction for Aston Martin while Red Bull Racing would do rather well!

The FIA's financial experts have issued their conclusions (see document below) regarding compliance with the budget ceiling for the 2021 season, even if the said document no longer appears on the Federation's website and an official press release specifies that the data submitted by the teams is still “being finalized…”

So, involuntary leak or fake news?
=================
The Milton Keynes team would therefore have exceeded the ceiling of 145 million only by… 150,000 dollars (instead of the 12 million for which it was accused), which would earn it a minor fine of 25,000 dollars.

On the other hand, Aston Martin would have spent 4 million more than the authorized ceiling and would be fined 100,000 dollars as well as a very heavy double sanction: the withdrawal of 50 points from the constructors' championship for 2021 and 2022, as well as a 10% reduction in wind tunnel study time.

By being demoted to last place in the standings, the British team will also receive less prize money last year as at the end of this season, but it can still appeal.
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gandharva
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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fake?
Last edited by gandharva on Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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214270
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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Fake news.
Team ANTI-HYPE. Prove it, then I’ll anoint you.

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chrisc90
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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Yeah, I seen that ‘statement’ and was said to be fake.
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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chrisc90 wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:12 pm
Yeah, I seen that ‘statement’ and was said to be fake.
.
Oké, thanks. Let's just wait and see when the FIA comes with the news.
The Power of Honda!

basti313
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:32 am
basti313 wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:45 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:13 am
Come to think of it.... RedBull was always suspiscious in 2021 the amount of developnent they were doing deep into the year!
Less than 1% over budget. Yes, one could see this, very obvious...
I guess it is more that RedBull is always suspicious for some.
tpe wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:30 am

This is completely different.
And it wasn't one team, it was one team that perfected an already exploited area.
When we discussed the cost cap here it was always "wait, what happens if the minor overspend is exploited". Even to the point that you may have to overspend to the minor infringement.
I do not see the teams exploiting it to be at big fault...my opinion was also that you may need to exploit also this grey area. The error is, that
- the penalty is not defined and harsh.
- the cost is not monitored "on the fly".

Now we are 10 months after the season and need to discuss a penalty which spoils the result and is too little for one side and too harsh for the other side.
Wait a second. Isn't this a bit hypocritical? The 1% is rumoured just as much as the 5% or 10% so why were prior reports bashed and this 1% figure held onto as if it has been confirmed, becauze it hasn't...
The accusations like yours are hypocritical. Not only a bit.
By the way, I never heard anything above 5% in rumors. I think it is realistic that they exploited the 5% to check what means "minor". Still there is not anything confirmed.
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:32 am
And as Ross Brawn said in 2019% breaching the rules is Sporting penalty so doesn't matter if 1% or 20% there should be dire consequences to the sporting results!
Then he should have defined the penalty and not just talk bull$hit. Of course it needs to scale with the percentage.

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chrisc90
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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If that’s what brawn’s says will happen then why are there multiple different penalties for a minor and major breach?
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

Arcanum
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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chrisc90 wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:45 pm
If that’s what brawn’s says will happen then why are there multiple different penalties for a minor and major breach?
Most likely to create uncertainty in the mind of the teams, and to provide flexibility depending on the nature of the breach.

Two examples:
1) Two teams on the budget cap limit are in a tight battle at the end of the season, and one team decides to implement two upgrades worth 1.4-million / 1% because the defined penalty for such a breach is worth it to potentially win a constructors placing.
2) A team might just have screwed up and gone over by 1.4-million for less underhand reasons.

I don't think people would want the above examples treated the same for penalties, and therefore some flexibility is needed.

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organic
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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RZS10
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Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

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There's articles quoting Brawn from 2019 when they announced the budget cap:
So the sanctions for breaching financial regulations will be sporting penalties of some sort, depending on the severity of the breach. [...]

If you fraudulently breach the financial regulations, you will be losing your championship. So it has serious consequences if teams breach these regulations.
fraudulently:
in a way that intends to deceive by doing something dishonest and illegal

The rules have this:
8.15 Examples of aggravating factors include:
(a) any element of bad faith, dishonesty, wilful concealment or fraud;
Now it's obviously hard to tell when you go from "oh soooorry we didn't know any better this is the first year afterall OwO" to trying to deceive the FIA by hiding costs or trying to be too clever.

The intention not to outline how much of a breach will carry which penalty was so that teams wouldn't weigh the penalties vs. the advantage they'd have by spending more.