Is the RB18 dominant?

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DDopey
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:11 am
Why is this thread still open? All evidence points to the car being dominant. It has won like 100% of the races after silverstone??
A conclusion based on race wins says little about car domination.

Mosin123
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Quali is a pointless way to look at it, you would have to ask the teams if they set up for race or quali find out how much fuel they are carrying and so on and so on for each session....

Race wins / how the race is won is the only way to look at it, you can dominate quali but have a poor race set up, have a good race set up and you can go from 16 - first in a few laps, slicing through the gird like a red hot knife through butter, making it look so easy it looks like an f1 car v an f2 car... so yes, the redbull car is dominant, in my view.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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DDopey wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:39 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:11 am
Why is this thread still open? All evidence points to the car being dominant. It has won like 100% of the races after silverstone??
A conclusion based on race wins says little about car domination.
Easily winning by over 15 seconds even after saftey cars.... Car's dominant.

The fastest drivers can be said to be within a tenth of each other on race pace. If you account for 2 seconds of dirty air... Winning by anything over 6 seconds is signs of a dominant car
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DDopey
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:37 pm
DDopey wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:39 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 2:11 am
Why is this thread still open? All evidence points to the car being dominant. It has won like 100% of the races after silverstone??
A conclusion based on race wins says little about car domination.
Easily winning by over 15 seconds even after saftey cars.... Car's dominant.
You are adding another measure, a completely different measure from the previous one. Also one that is inconclusive as at the same time that car also was 3 seconds slower to 2nd.
The fastest drivers can be said to be within a tenth of each other on race pace. If you account for 2 seconds of dirty air... Winning by anything over 6 seconds is signs of a dominant car
Like I said, a team consists of two cars. So you are using only half of the data about the car.
Combine that with this is a measurement over 1 race, where a lot more parameters decide on the end result. In other words you ignore, lap times, strategy, add pitstops, safety cars etc.

I proposed looking in this topic earlier to look at all the data (for the last 10 years), and suggestions on how to interpret the data, and judging the limitations of this data (driver vs. driver). Until then it is just emotion.

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west52keep64
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Sieper wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:24 pm
west52keep64 wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:57 pm
Sieper wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 2:54 pm


He wasn’t when you posted that message. He was in third at that time. Now he is back to second after an abysmal Ferrari weekend.
He's second in the WDC even after admitted the team developed the car around Max.
Q: Do you believe the car was engineered away from you, and towards Max?

Perez: I think probably yeah. You know there are times where some upgrades benefit you more or less, and goes in hand with your driving style. We've seen it with many other [Red Bull] drivers before, so I think the way we develop the car certainly went more in Max's direction. But it's something that as a team we managed to understand it well, and I really hope that together we can avoid these things happening [in the future].
The interview can be found here, the question starts at 3:09: https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/s ... -home-fans
He WASNT second when PZ posted that, he was third at that point. THAT is what I was replying to. He is second now, after the abysmal Ferrari Mexico weekend. Was already explained.
And I was simply saying, he is NOW 2nd in the WDC despite admitting the car has been developed more towards Max's preferences i.e. the car is so quick, even someone not happy with it is able to get 2nd in the WDC.

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Sieper
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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First 1&2 since 2018. Almost as dominant as Mercedes.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

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Stu
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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The thing is, the pace difference in qualifying is now very close when compared with 2014-2018, on occasions the Mercedes were over a second ahead over one lap compared with ‘best of the rest’ (oftentimes that was the Merc powered Williams); over the course of a race the pace gap was never that big, the strategy tended towards ‘get a pit-stop gap - pit, then manage the gap’. That is no longer an available tactic. Fortunately!!
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

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chrisc90
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Stu wrote:
Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:24 am
The thing is, the pace difference in qualifying is now very close when compared with 2014-2018, on occasions the Mercedes were over a second ahead over one lap compared with ‘best of the rest’ (oftentimes that was the Merc powered Williams); over the course of a race the pace gap was never that big, the strategy tended towards ‘get a pit-stop gap - pit, then manage the gap’. That is no longer an available tactic. Fortunately!!
Which does beg to ask the question of whether Merc have been struggling slightly with their calls. Was it Mexico they pitted Lewis to cover off Checo on a fresh set of mediums (where checo started on soft and Lewis Medium). Instead of having a bit of confidence in the pit strategy they immediately covered him off with a hard tyre. That probably would have worked when they were out infront, but now they are 2nd/3rd in the running order its a different scenario for them
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

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Stu
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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I do wonder on that lack of ‘match fitness’ on the pit wall in such circumstances (imo, the LH call was probably correct, but to copy it with GR was a mistake), I also think that is where their correlation/modelling difficulties have come from; previously ‘close, but good enough’ would have been good enough, for this year they really needed ‘good, and as close as possible’ it what was needed. Over the past seven years that is where RedBull have had to work hardest (and where they earned their results) as they didn’t have the underlying pace to win.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

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chrisc90
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Stu wrote:
Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:19 pm
I do wonder on that lack of ‘match fitness’ on the pit wall in such circumstances (imo, the LH call was probably correct, but to copy it with GR was a mistake), I also think that is where their correlation/modelling difficulties have come from; previously ‘close, but good enough’ would have been good enough, for this year they really needed ‘good, and as close as possible’ it what was needed. Over the past seven years that is where RedBull have had to work hardest (and where they earned their results) as they didn’t have the underlying pace to win.
Yeah fully agreed. Ive always said the RB pitwall is the sharpest on the grid. Even with basic decisions such as tyre choice under a safety car they always go for the fastest tyre to suit the number of laps left (if its a late SC). Mercedes have always been a team who have preferred track position. A tactic that probably 'worked' when their car was faster than the others - even on fresher tyres
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

Xyz22
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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harty71
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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In Max's hands certainly, I'm not sure if it would be in any other drivers hands though, he is currently at a different level to anyone else.

Xyz22
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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harty71 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:36 pm
In Max's hands certainly, I'm not sure if it would be in any other drivers hands though, he is currently at a different level to anyone else.
Yeah Perez is by far the second best driver after Max. :mrgreen:

harty71
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Xyz22 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:48 pm
harty71 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:36 pm
In Max's hands certainly, I'm not sure if it would be in any other drivers hands though, he is currently at a different level to anyone else.
Yeah Perez is by far the second best driver after Max. :mrgreen:
It doesn't work like that, he may not be, that still doesn't mean anyone else would beat him does it?

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SiLo
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Xyz22 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:48 pm
harty71 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:36 pm
In Max's hands certainly, I'm not sure if it would be in any other drivers hands though, he is currently at a different level to anyone else.
Yeah Perez is by far the second best driver after Max. :mrgreen:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Felipe Baby!