Is the RB18 dominant?

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Sofa King
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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This thread should be the shortest. The answer is yes

mendis
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Sofa King wrote:
24 Oct 2022, 06:20
This thread should be the shortest. The answer is yes
I don't think by any stretch of imagination RB18 is dominant. It's decent, but not dominant.

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ispano6
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Obvious answer: The driver-car combination of Max Verstappen and the RB18 has been dominant on race day. The RB18 in the hands of Sergio Perez has been competitive against Leclerc in the F1-75. Therefore the difference is clearly in Max Verstappen's ability to maximize the package. Laurent Mekkies of Ferrari states that the straight-line speed of the RB18 is what gives them the edge to win on Sundays. That is a combination of aerodynamic efficiency and the power of the Honda PU.

DGP123
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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mendis wrote:
24 Oct 2022, 06:35
Sofa King wrote:
24 Oct 2022, 06:20
This thread should be the shortest. The answer is yes
I don't think by any stretch of imagination RB18 is dominant. It's decent, but not dominant.
My god. I don’t care what Perez does in it, he’s a nobody making up the numbers. With Max, Lewis or Alonso in it, probably even Leclerc, the car can literally do 360 spins mid race, have dodgy pit stops, have front wing pieces missing, qualify 14th, and it would still win. It’s going to end up winning 15+ races. It’s dominant, hence why both championships have been wrapped up, what feels like, for an age.

Xyz22
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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ispano6 wrote:
24 Oct 2022, 06:41
Obvious answer: The driver-car combination of Max Verstappen and the RB18 has been dominant on race day. The RB18 in the hands of Sergio Perez has been competitive against Leclerc in the F1-75. Therefore the difference is clearly in Max Verstappen's ability to maximize the package. Laurent Mekkies of Ferrari states that the straight-line speed of the RB18 is what gives them the edge to win on Sundays. That is a combination of aerodynamic efficiency and the power of the Honda PU.
The fact that Perez can compete with Leclerc or Hamilton highlights how currently dominant the RB 18 is.

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Sieper
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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The fact that he can’t too? Or where was he?

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AeroDynamic
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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It's quick and works great everywhere. It might not have the edge in one lap pace but its very strong in every area, a very balanced and strong car. Dominant on Sundays.

You only need to go back to Austria to see how Verstappen is only dominant when the car is dominant. Perez has never been a dominant driver.

Max is dominant in a dominant car. But his dominance hinges on the dominant car. Very much so the RB18 is dominant beast. RB did a massive job on this car given their cars were previously dominant in corners at expense of straight-line speed.

mendis
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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AeroDynamic wrote:
24 Oct 2022, 15:05
It's quick and works great everywhere. It might not have the edge in one lap pace but its very strong in every area, a very balanced and strong car. Dominant on Sundays.

You only need to go back to Austria to see how Verstappen is only dominant when the car is dominant. Perez has never been a dominant driver.

Max is dominant in a dominant car. But his dominance hinges on the dominant car. Very much so the RB18 is dominant beast. RB did a massive job on this car given their cars were previously dominant in corners at expense of straight-line speed.
It's a shame Red Bull didn't have a powerful enough engine previously. We could have seen some really good battles for championship than the boring domination.

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Sieper
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Austria they made a big set up mistake, they had no tirelife whatsoever. They have confirmed that.

I was thinking how bad tirelife deteriorated after the TD-039 for Ferrari, but that was after the summer. Maybe they wanted to win very badly in Austria and went very far with their floor in Austria and that’s why RBR was by comparison so poor on tire life.

Or maybe RBR’s set up mistake was responsible for the tire wear and that explains it by itself. If you read Neweys book “how to built a racecar” he talks about several old seasons and they also sometimes got it wrong (the occasional weekend) back then, so that does happen.

That Max then cannot win (but STILL won the sprint race) is only logical. But there you are not talking about a “not dominant” car, but of an inferior car (that one weekend).

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AeroDynamic
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Sieper wrote:
24 Oct 2022, 15:58
Austria they made a big set up mistake, they had no tirelife whatsoever. They have confirmed that.

I was thinking how bad tirelife deteriorated after the TD-039 for Ferrari, but that was after the summer. Maybe they wanted to win very badly in Austria and went very far with their floor in Austria and that’s why RBR was by comparison so poor on tire life.

Or maybe RBR’s set up mistake was responsible for the tire wear and that explains it by itself. If you read Neweys book “how to built a racecar” he talks about several old seasons and they also sometimes got it wrong (the occasional weekend) back then, so that does happen.

That Max then cannot win (but STILL won the sprint race) is only logical. But there you are not talking about a “not dominant” car, but of an inferior car (that one weekend).
2021 he wasn't dominant either. The point is, dominance happens with a dominant car. Thats what makes it feasible or not. If you have a dominant driver and a dominant team track side, you get dominated results. And that is what we have seen this year.

But the car is still the thing that all the results hinge on, predominantly. The RB18 is dominant this year. it's very difficult for Cars to flex in pace like they did in Merc years because engine modes in qualifying could exaggerate the gap and may only reappear for limited time in race scenarios. In this era, dominance is static to tyre deg/race pace and general engine power (outside of the chassis) It's not dynamic like it was before.

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Sieper
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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In 2021 he had a slightly worse car. Now he has a slightly better car and is dominant. A dominant car would have mean Checo would not be in doubt for P2 finish this year. Like Bottas has been. Bottas isn’t better than Perez.

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ispano6
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Xyz22 wrote:
24 Oct 2022, 11:56
ispano6 wrote:
24 Oct 2022, 06:41
Obvious answer: The driver-car combination of Max Verstappen and the RB18 has been dominant on race day. The RB18 in the hands of Sergio Perez has been competitive against Leclerc in the F1-75. Therefore the difference is clearly in Max Verstappen's ability to maximize the package. Laurent Mekkies of Ferrari states that the straight-line speed of the RB18 is what gives them the edge to win on Sundays. That is a combination of aerodynamic efficiency and the power of the Honda PU.
The fact that Perez can compete with Leclerc or Hamilton highlights how currently dominant the RB 18 is.
The fact is you aren't giving Perez much credit for his abilities. He's great on tires, which is what the past few years cars hinged on. You realize he WON a race in a Racing Point after being in LAST PLACE, and he scored many podiums in a Force India and Sauber. Allow me to remind you:
10 2020 Sakhir Sakhir 1 11 Racing Point RP20 BWT Mercedes V6 t h Pirelli
9 2020 Turkey Istanbul 2 11 Racing Point RP20 BWT Mercedes V6 t h Pirelli
8 2018 Azerbaijan Bakou 3 11 Force India VJM11 Mercedes V6 t h Pirelli
7 2016 Europe Bakou 3 11 Force India VJM09 Mercedes V6 t h Pirelli
6 2016 Monaco Monaco 3 11 Force India VJM09 Mercedes V6 t h Pirelli
5 2015 Russia Sochi 3 11 Force India VJM08 Mercedes V6 t h Pirelli
4 2014 Bahrain Sakhir 3 11 Force India VJM07 Mercedes V6 t h Pirelli
3 2012 Italy Monza 2 15 Sauber C31 Ferrari V8 Pirelli
2 2012 Canada Montréal 3 15 Sauber C31 Ferrari V8 Pirelli
1 2012 Malaysia Kuala Lumpur 2 15 Sauber C31 Ferrari V8 Pirelli

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AeroDynamic
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Sieper wrote:
24 Oct 2022, 17:25
In 2021 he had a slightly worse car. Now he has a slightly better car and is dominant. A dominant car would have mean Checo would not be in doubt for P2 finish this year. Like Bottas has been. Bottas isn’t better than Perez.
Red bull said on balance he had the faster car. When the margin is so tight, variables such a things going your way also play a role. His car has way less quirks and was better suited to the reg changes in 21. This year he has a car that is a lot better than the rest of the field.

Perez doesn’t know how to get more out of the car or out of himself in the rb18. Even so, using Perez as evidence of how dominant the rb18 is doesn’t make a strong argument. For one, he’s not the defacto number 1, so his strategy is consistently set up to finish further behind drivers whose teams are favouring them for the win.

When Checo is RB’s favourite for win, he gets priority strategy to support his shot at win (Monaco, Singapore)

would you say the w11 was less dominant if max suffered less mechanical dnf’s that year and finished ahead of valterri in the standings? VB only took p2 by 9 points.
Last edited by AeroDynamic on 24 Oct 2022, 18:00, edited 2 times in total.

Mosin123
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Sieper wrote:
24 Oct 2022, 17:25
In 2021 he had a slightly worse car. Now he has a slightly better car and is dominant. A dominant car would have mean Checo would not be in doubt for P2 finish this year. Like Bottas has been. Bottas isn’t better than Perez.
Think you need go tell Neways that, he quite proudly says Redbull had the best car last year.

Before he joined, During, and after leaving Merc, Bottas has proved he is better than Perez.

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Sieper
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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AeroDynamic wrote:
24 Oct 2022, 17:55
Sieper wrote:
24 Oct 2022, 17:25
In 2021 he had a slightly worse car. Now he has a slightly better car and is dominant. A dominant car would have mean Checo would not be in doubt for P2 finish this year. Like Bottas has been. Bottas isn’t better than Perez.
Red bull said on balance he had the faster car. When the margin is so tight, variables such a things going your way also play a role. His car has way less quirks and was better suited to the reg changes in 21. This year he has a car that is a lot better than the rest of the field.

Perez doesn’t know how to get more out of the car or out of himself in the rb18. Even so, using Perez as evidence of how dominant the rb18 is doesn’t make a strong argument. For one, he’s not the defacto number 1, so his strategy is consistently set up to finish further behind drivers whose teams are favouring them for the win.

When Checo is RB’s favourite for win, he gets priority strategy to support his shot at win (Monaco, Singapore) would you say the w11 was less dominant if max suffered less mechanical dnf’s that year and finished ahead of valterri in the standings? VB only took p2 by 9 points.
That was against Max.