## Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
Latios
Latios
48
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:58 am

### Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

yamahasho wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:55 pm
Latios wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:11 pm
yamahasho wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:54 pm
Great work,

For those, including myself, that don't know how to go from the coefficients to actual downforce what is the total downforce at various speeds? 7k-10k of downforce? Any stalling images?

Funny how the whole car looks like a big wing from the bottom, top and side but the front nose appears to be doing nothing, it's probably a spec part where no shapes are allowed.
Downforce = ClA (i.e. Coefficient * refrence area) * dynamic pressure of far field
= ClA * 0.5* rho *v^2
In my simulation, rho = 1.185 kg/m^3, v=60m/s
so ClA=1 means downforce = 2133 N
so my ClA 5.84 = 12456 N when 60m/s
So 2800 lbs of downforce at 134mph, not bad, any article that compares any numbers to a wind tunnel and more importantly an actual circuit test.

What is the purpose of vortices, is it just to seal the floor or do they have other benefits?

Do you have a CFD when the car begins to propoise?
I could not found ClA number or downforce number on this year's F1 in any news.
Vortices can help to stabilize floor, and influence flow direction around it, and it self is a low pressure structure.
My simulation is just steady flow due to my PC's ablity, so didn't simulate the dynamic propoise process.

Latios
Latios
48
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:58 am

### Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

yamahasho wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:57 pm
Latios wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:49 pm
Besides, could anyone help me to connect to aerodynamicist or HR of F1 teams? I really hope to get a job there .
I posted something similar in off topic, don’t want to work with boring spec F1 but my guess you need to know someone on the inside or start in the lower formula and move up. Otherwise your skills resume get lost in cyberspace.
Thank you. I'm trying to reach experts by linkedin & facebook & official websites of F1 teams. Any other advice?

yamahasho
yamahasho
10
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:04 am
Location: USA

### Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

Latios wrote:
Fri Oct 28, 2022 3:38 pm
yamahasho wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:57 pm
Latios wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:49 pm
Besides, could anyone help me to connect to aerodynamicist or HR of F1 teams? I really hope to get a job there .
I posted something similar in off topic, don’t want to work with boring spec F1 but my guess you need to know someone on the inside or start in the lower formula and move up. Otherwise your skills resume get lost in cyberspace.
Thank you. I'm trying to reach experts by linkedin & facebook & official websites of F1 teams. Any other advice?
Try Kyle engineers.
Supercharged Ford Taurus SHO 5spd. Sold.

Latios
Latios
48
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:58 am

### Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

yamahasho wrote:
Fri Oct 28, 2022 3:45 pm
Latios wrote:
Fri Oct 28, 2022 3:38 pm
yamahasho wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:57 pm

I posted something similar in off topic, don’t want to work with boring spec F1 but my guess you need to know someone on the inside or start in the lower formula and move up. Otherwise your skills resume get lost in cyberspace.
Thank you. I'm trying to reach experts by linkedin & facebook & official websites of F1 teams. Any other advice?
Try Kyle engineers.
Thank you, I watched his video in the past to learn aero knowledge, I'm trying to reach him.

Stu
Moderator
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:05 am
Location: Norfolk, UK

### Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

If you are on LinkedIn, there are regularly posts from recruitment agencies for F1 staff (much as there always used to be in the back of Autosport - maybe there still is.
Direct contact with teams, unless you know someone within the team is largely a pointless task, unless you are at Uni & want to intern (there are particular routes to take there).

I did respond to an ad from AMG Petronas, was absolutely amazed to not only get a response, but also the opportunity to submit an entry on their online exam/filter for applicants. I didn’t get further than that (and didn’t expect to get that far, tbf).

The opportunities are out there, but the old advice stays the same; get on the ladder, contribute to a team, and progress. Nobody jumps to the top rung. Look at how the big names from the past started, follow that path and you will achieve. You will find your niche and have a career.

F1 is dog-eat-dog, and lots of people achieve burn-out after just a few years.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

jjn9128
752
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:53 pm

### Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

I think the big names from the past advice isn't that relevent. Look at James Key, technical director in his early 30s having worked in most departments at Jordan. F1 was just different back in the day - you could start in the drawing office and transfer into aero. Nowadays if you apply for a posted position and you're one of 1000s of applicants. You've just got to plug away and unfortunately there are many who deserve to make it who don't and some who don't deserve it who do. In the past there was an issue that F1 teams had favoured universities to take graduates from, that's changing now but slowly. There is also an advantage now to being British for 80% of the teams just in terms of securing work visas.

Experience always counts though. If you could write some of these CFD cases up in a bit more long form to show you understand the aero rather than "just" posting pictures it could go a long way to convince a team you're the right person! e.g. your fence vortex and rear floor ingress are different at low vs high rake. Why? What would you do with that information? Can you harness that to improve the car? If it's a negative how would you correct it? ...etc
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

yamahasho
yamahasho
10
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:04 am
Location: USA

### Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

Stu wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 10:25 am
If you are on LinkedIn, there are regularly posts from recruitment agencies for F1 staff (much as there always used to be in the back of Autosport - maybe there still is.
Direct contact with teams, unless you know someone within the team is largely a pointless task, unless you are at Uni & want to intern (there are particular routes to take there).

I did respond to an ad from AMG Petronas, was absolutely amazed to not only get a response, but also the opportunity to submit an entry on their online exam/filter for applicants. I didn’t get further than that (and didn’t expect to get that far, tbf).

The opportunities are out there, but the old advice stays the same; get on the ladder, contribute to a team, and progress. Nobody jumps to the top rung. Look at how the big names from the past started, follow that path and you will achieve. You will find your niche and have a career.

F1 is dog-eat-dog, and lots of people achieve burn-out after just a few years.
Can you post the email or did they just contact you through some LinkedIn messaging portal?

As for Kyle, his website email kyle@jkfaero.com

To add, always wondered why Kyle left Mercedes F1, either an aerodynamicist career is short lived or something else.
Supercharged Ford Taurus SHO 5spd. Sold.

jjn9128
752
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:53 pm

### Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

He made a video about it. Motorsport valley in the UK is the arse end of nowhere (still only like 1hr to London depending where you live) and he wanted to go back to Australia.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

yamahasho
yamahasho
10
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:04 am
Location: USA

### Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

jjn9128 wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 5:02 pm
He made a video about it. Motorsport valley in the UK is the arse end of nowhere (still only like 1hr to London depending where you live) and he wanted to go back to Australia.
This one?

I guess his wife nagged him for lack of time in other parts of his life until he quit, sounds familiar.
Supercharged Ford Taurus SHO 5spd. Sold.

Stu
Moderator
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:05 am
Location: Norfolk, UK

### Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

yamahasho wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 4:47 pm
Stu wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 10:25 am
If you are on LinkedIn, there are regularly posts from recruitment agencies for F1 staff (much as there always used to be in the back of Autosport - maybe there still is.
Direct contact with teams, unless you know someone within the team is largely a pointless task, unless you are at Uni & want to intern (there are particular routes to take there).

I did respond to an ad from AMG Petronas, was absolutely amazed to not only get a response, but also the opportunity to submit an entry on their online exam/filter for applicants. I didn’t get further than that (and didn’t expect to get that far, tbf).

The opportunities are out there, but the old advice stays the same; get on the ladder, contribute to a team, and progress. Nobody jumps to the top rung. Look at how the big names from the past started, follow that path and you will achieve. You will find your niche and have a career.

F1 is dog-eat-dog, and lots of people achieve burn-out after just a few years.
Can you post the email or did they just contact you through some LinkedIn messaging portal?

As for Kyle, his website email kyle@jkfaero.com

To add, always wondered why Kyle left Mercedes F1, either an aerodynamicist career is short lived or something else.
There was an email, but it had an OTP link in it, I deleted it.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

Latios
Latios
48
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:58 am

### Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

Stu wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 10:25 am
If you are on LinkedIn, there are regularly posts from recruitment agencies for F1 staff (much as there always used to be in the back of Autosport - maybe there still is.
Direct contact with teams, unless you know someone within the team is largely a pointless task, unless you are at Uni & want to intern (there are particular routes to take there).

I did respond to an ad from AMG Petronas, was absolutely amazed to not only get a response, but also the opportunity to submit an entry on their online exam/filter for applicants. I didn’t get further than that (and didn’t expect to get that far, tbf).

The opportunities are out there, but the old advice stays the same; get on the ladder, contribute to a team, and progress. Nobody jumps to the top rung. Look at how the big names from the past started, follow that path and you will achieve. You will find your niche and have a career.

F1 is dog-eat-dog, and lots of people achieve burn-out after just a few years.
Thank you very much for the detailed device!
I've applied aero positions posted in Linkedin. I also contact someone who was in F1 team and he gave me info of a headhunter which I'm trying. I also tried to directly contact aero leads of F1 teams, no response yet, about to try facebook.
Now I've joined a small group in China to build a kit car during off hours, that brings some fun.

Latios
Latios
48
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:58 am

### Re: Fully CFD Analysis on F1 2022 aero, focus on Redbull & Ferrari

jjn9128 wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 11:24 am
I think the big names from the past advice isn't that relevent. Look at James Key, technical director in his early 30s having worked in most departments at Jordan. F1 was just different back in the day - you could start in the drawing office and transfer into aero. Nowadays if you apply for a posted position and you're one of 1000s of applicants. You've just got to plug away and unfortunately there are many who deserve to make it who don't and some who don't deserve it who do. In the past there was an issue that F1 teams had favoured universities to take graduates from, that's changing now but slowly. There is also an advantage now to being British for 80% of the teams just in terms of securing work visas.

Experience always counts though. If you could write some of these CFD cases up in a bit more long form to show you understand the aero rather than "just" posting pictures it could go a long way to convince a team you're the right person! e.g. your fence vortex and rear floor ingress are different at low vs high rake. Why? What would you do with that information? Can you harness that to improve the car? If it's a negative how would you correct it? ...etc
Thank you for the advice. Now I'm in China (but don't like the government) and I've HPI visa to work in UK, but I have to enter UK within 2 weeks to make the visa effective, so I post my analysis in hurry. In coming days I'll pick time to better analyze the flow such as different rakes.