FERRARI LMH testing

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
Gilles27Kimi7
Gilles27Kimi7
16
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:13 pm

Re: FERRARI LMH testing

Post

I have to disagree, not much convergence between the 963 and the 499, except for the idea of horizontal headlights (even that quite different). Front splitter to sides it's all extremely different, it does gets a bit similar in the diffuser, but here LMDh are forced by regulations, LMHs can have many solutions.

User avatar
Honda Porsche fan
0
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:44 am

Re: FERRARI LMH testing

Post

SiLo wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:37 pm
Honda Porsche fan wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:51 am
Many of the manufacturers that compete in FIA Le Mans Hypercar and Daytona LMDh do not build their own chassis/aero. The chassis are built by Oreca, Dallara and Multimatic...

Acura/Honda ARX-06 LMDh chassis is built by Oreca...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acura_ARX-06

BMW M Hybrid V8 is built by Dallara...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M_Hybrid_V8

Cadillac V-LMDh chassis is built by Dallara.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_V-LMDh

Porsche 963 Lmdh is built by Multimatic...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_963


I miss the old FIA GT Championship from 1996 to 1999...

McLaren F1 GTR Long Tail
Mercedes CLK GTR
Porsche 911 GT1

Bring it back!
That's because LMDh Chassis are only built by 4 manufacturers, and an engine and gearbox is supplied as well. That's the main difference between LMH and LMDh. LMH allows the manufacturers to build the entire car to whatever regs they have set.

There is a good video about it here:
Will the LMH cars have an advantage over LMDh cars if a larger manufacturer with a larger budget, let's say Ferrari, Mercedes or Toyota go the LMH route and decide to build their own car from scratch inhouse ?

Are there rules and regulations in place to limit the power output or engine displacement ? What if a manufacturer wants to build a twin turbo 6.0 liter V10 or V12, but another manufacturer wants to race with a 2.4 liter V6 like Acura? Are the rules set so that all engines regardless of number of cylinders and displacement will have the same power output ?

If all engines are forced to have the same power output regardless of size I would do what Porsche did with the 919 Hybrid, a small lightweight 2.0 liter V4 turbo that weighs around 170 pounds (77 kilos) and take advantage of packaging.

Gilles27Kimi7
Gilles27Kimi7
16
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:13 pm

Re: FERRARI LMH testing

Post

Yes, the rules are set around Power, energy and Downforce/Drag limitations. The BoP has three parameters: Power, energy and weight.

How this is policed in practice:
Image
The cylindrical objects on each half shaft are torque transducers.

There is also an activation speed for LMH hybrid system, 190 km/h for Toyota and Ferrari (29 cm wide front and 34 cm wide rears) and 150 km/h for Peugeot (31 cm wide tyres front and rears), so the 4WD advantage is not really there. Since this year the hybrid system of LMH also uses an open differential, removing that advantage.

MadMax
MadMax
4
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2022 2:23 am

Re: FERRARI LMH testing

Post

Honda Porsche fan wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:04 am

Are there rules and regulations in place to limit the power output or engine displacement ? What if a manufacturer wants to build a twin turbo 6.0 liter V10 or V12, but another manufacturer wants to race with a 2.4 liter V6 like Acura? Are the rules set so that all engines regardless of number of cylinders and displacement will have the same power output ?

If all engines are forced to have the same power output regardless of size I would do what Porsche did with the 919 Hybrid, a small lightweight 2.0 liter V4 turbo that weighs around 170 pounds (77 kilos) and take advantage of packaging.
Here you go, fill your boots:

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... .06.21.pdf
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... .03.22.pdf

Martin Keene
Martin Keene
2
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 8:02 am

Re: FERRARI LMH testing

Post

johnny comelately wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:51 am
Dual posted but with good reason
using a redesigned 296 engine to be a stressed member and not Compacted graphite iron! :wink:
:wink: :lol:

'Tis me, just me.
'Tis me, just me.
1
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:28 pm

Re: FERRARI LMH testing

Post

MadMax wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:54 pm
Are the rules very restrictive in terms of bodywork, etc.? Except in detail, the Ferrari and Porsche look pretty similar with high wheel arches and low mid body and a tiny cockpit pod. And a number of details are remarkably similar too e.g. roof top strakes.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FgQ1v8qWQAE ... name=large

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 3_LMDh.jpg

No these are different classes. the LMH category that Ferrari is competing in is the full blown prototype class (castrated LMP1), Porsche are in LMDH which is a continuation of the rather successful DPI. Basically it's an LMP2 chassis in a frock. Entrants, duct tape their engine to it, zip tie their own bodywork and go racing.

The LMH rules are sort of similar in principle to the old America's Cup design rules before foiling was a thing. You have a limit on aerodynamic efficiency and power(?) but you can kind of do whatever you want to get there. Difference, is that in the AC, the rule was an equation with a huge amount of freedom beyond the basic parameters of the boat, here unfortunately, the FIA are overbearing nannies where you can't do anything. But the principle is the same: meet X parameters, do what you want to get there.
Now that I think of it, having a rule based on an equation similar to the AC where length, height, width, power, mass and L/D ratio all have to be combined to give X result and do what you want within those parameters would be awesome. Because we would have relatively close racing with no need for BoP and designers would stop whining because they can do whatever they want as long as they meet these parameters and we could have healthy innovation again.

User avatar
Honda Porsche fan
0
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:44 am

Re: FERRARI LMH testing

Post

Gilles27Kimi7 wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:56 am
Yes, the rules are set around Power, energy and Downforce/Drag limitations. The BoP has three parameters: Power, energy and weight.

How this is policed in practice:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9PGuX8XsAo ... =4096x4096
The cylindrical objects on each half shaft are torque transducers.

There is also an activation speed for LMH hybrid system, 190 km/h for Toyota and Ferrari (29 cm wide front and 34 cm wide rears) and 150 km/h for Peugeot (31 cm wide tyres front and rears), so the 4WD advantage is not really there. Since this year the hybrid system of LMH also uses an open differential, removing that advantage.
I know it's way to early to tell before the 2023 season has even started, but judging by the rules which engine displacement and number of cylinders (V4, V6, V8) will have the best advantage if you can guess?

Is it as simple as a V8 engine car will be forced to carry more weight/ballast than a V4 or V6 engine car and also not be allowed to deploy as much electrical energy/power ?

Gilles27Kimi7
Gilles27Kimi7
16
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:13 pm

Re: FERRARI LMH testing

Post

I don't think there is much of an advantage, after the power level was lowered to 500 kW manufacturers used what they had available and what they wanted more or less.
Toyota developed a new V6, because it was made for the 600 kW rules so they needed something bigger, Peugeot didn't have anything available so they developed a new engine, a 2.6 l V6 when they had the new rules.
As for Glickenhaus, basically Pipo Moteurs created a V8 from the Inline 4 developed for rallies, Porsche had the 4.6 l from the RS Spyder program and added turbos, BMW had several option and after considering the Inline-4 from DTM decided for the DTM V8 with turbos, Acura/Honda outright used the 2024 IndyCar engine since it fitted nicely. Ferrari uses a V6 that is related to that of the 296, but it's otherwise almost completely new to be used as a stressed member.

tpe
tpe
-2
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:24 pm
Location: Greece

Re: FERRARI LMH testing

Post

I never thought I would say that, but I will try to follow the series this year if I find a way to watch it on the TV.

Just because there is a red car there :D

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
81
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: FERRARI LMH testing

Post

So glad AF Corse will be handling the race operations.