Monaco Gate 2022

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Gooch
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Re: Monaco Gate 2022

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I was pretty lukewarm on this conspiracy but rewatching the video, Perez's braking is just as bizarre as his throttle input. He reinitiates the brakes in the same frame he hits full throttle, before the car has even rotated really and certainly before he applies any noticeable countersteer.

https://imgur.com/a/Lqb4Yxi

I don't know anyone who drives in this manner, especially not of they are trying to drive fast. You countersteer and hope that you can save it without having to lift, normally. There's no real reason to be braking at that point (he's already 10 kph slower than his previous lap) on a normal lap and it's an abnormal reaction for a racing driver to have to a spin.

Also, the timing is completely off, too. We're talking 0.10-0.11s from the moment the revs start to pick up to when he starts to reapply the brakes. Probably even less than that when you consider that the wheels won't break traction immediately and you wouldn't feel the car slide that early. These guys are good but that's bordering on inhuman.

Dee
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Re: Monaco Gate 2022

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:30 pm
Juzh wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:14 pm
Perez 100% crash on purpose, he knew he's on a bad lap and just wanted to keep max behind no matter what. lol
Weak sauce. The road was low grip. And others had slides in that same spot.
Other drivers that slid at that spot never pressed the throttle at over 90%, before the apex, and refused to try and stop it crashing. Perez never countersteered to correct it. Perez also slowed down more than any other lap just before that point, almost like he didn't want to damage the car too much.

MadMax
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Re: Monaco Gate 2022

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Dee wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:09 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:30 pm
Juzh wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:14 pm
Perez 100% crash on purpose, he knew he's on a bad lap and just wanted to keep max behind no matter what. lol
Weak sauce. The road was low grip. And others had slides in that same spot.
Other drivers that slid at that spot never pressed the throttle at over 90%, before the apex, and refused to try and stop it crashing. Perez never countersteered to correct it. Perez also slowed down more than any other lap just before that point, almost like he didn't want to damage the car too much.
His line in the corner was different and I wonder if he was trying to be clever and use the throttle to tighten the line by encouraging the rear to move a bit. But he just got it totally wrong. Looks more like hamfisted driving than Schumacher-inspired skulduggery.

GrizzleBoy
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Re: Monaco Gate 2022

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The thing that doesn't make sense is that Max is clearly going to benefit from Sergio sacrificing his races for as long as he stays at Red Bull.

Will he retain the same conviction in condemning his team for breaking this apparent "no helping" rule?

Jolle
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Re: Monaco Gate 2022

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Lets for a moment go though all the options. Let's say Perez indeed fudged Monaco and admitted it to Marko and Horner, you know, their bosses... so, Verstappen just played team boss? Or let's say, Perez didn't admit anything but was accused by Verstappen. Frustrated by management not taking actions, he takes the right into his own hands?

Whataever Perez, Marko and Horner did, Verstappen action just isn't justifiable in any way.

reading between the lines, this is exactly why Ricciardo left RedBull. After Baku he felt that there is a form of gaslighting around verstappen.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Monaco Gate 2022

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Dee wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:09 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:30 pm
Juzh wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:14 pm
Perez 100% crash on purpose, he knew he's on a bad lap and just wanted to keep max behind no matter what. lol
Weak sauce. The road was low grip. And others had slides in that same spot.
Other drivers that slid at that spot never pressed the throttle at over 90%, before the apex, and refused to try and stop it crashing. Perez never countersteered to correct it. Perez also slowed down more than any other lap just before that point, almost like he didn't want to damage the car too much.
Wasnt Perez on a good rum there too? Perez is not that type of character to crash on purpose.
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Wouter
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Re: Monaco Gate 2022

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:39 pm
Dee wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:09 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:30 pm


Weak sauce. The road was low grip. And others had slides in that same spot.
Other drivers that slid at that spot never pressed the throttle at over 90%, before the apex, and refused to try and stop it crashing. Perez never countersteered to correct it. Perez also slowed down more than any other lap just before that point, almost like he didn't want to damage the car too much.
Wasnt Perez on a good rum there too? Perez is not that type of character to crash on purpose.
.
No, his first sector was bad.

"Perez is not that type of character to crash on purpose." 🤔

Do you remember the time in Singapore 2017 he was mad at Sirotkin who overtoke him?
And in the same GP he pushed Ocon into the wall?





Last edited by Wouter on Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mandrake
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Re: Monaco Gate 2022

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:39 pm
Dee wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:09 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:30 pm


Weak sauce. The road was low grip. And others had slides in that same spot.
Other drivers that slid at that spot never pressed the throttle at over 90%, before the apex, and refused to try and stop it crashing. Perez never countersteered to correct it. Perez also slowed down more than any other lap just before that point, almost like he didn't want to damage the car too much.
Wasnt Perez on a good rum there too? Perez is not that type of character to crash on purpose.
He was already slower in S1, so not likely to improve whereas the others were faster. So Verstappen most likely would have qualied in front of him. In Monaco that usually means also finishing ahead. Perez was still kinda close in the championship at Monaco

Matt-A
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Re: Monaco Gate 2022

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It's a shame there is no footage of the car from the outside. It's possible he had lift off oversteer that he tried to correct with throttle rather than steering input, but I can't find an angle showing what the back of the car was doing.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Monaco Gate 2022

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Anyway. We have evidence that Max was very pleased with having zperez as a teammate after Monaco even after seeing Perez telemetry... So not sure why would bad blood exist now? I think its totatally unrelated.
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chrisc90
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Re: Monaco Gate 2022

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Yeah, id be very surprised if this is anything to go by.

personally I think Max had a chip on his shoulder from something that's occurred and this was his way of saying he doesn't agree with some of the things that were asked. I mean hes gone from not helping Checo in 1 (2 if you include the sprint) races to saying that he will help him in dubai if thats what he needs.

Guess most of the rumours etc floating around are just pure speculation.
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AR3-GP
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Re: Monaco Gate 2022

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chrisc90 wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:49 am
Yeah, id be very surprised if this is anything to go by.

personally I think Max had a chip on his shoulder from something that's occurred and this was his way of saying he doesn't agree with some of the things that were asked. I mean hes gone from not helping Checo in 1 (2 if you include the sprint) races to saying that he will help him in dubai if thats what he needs.

Guess most of the rumours etc floating around are just pure speculation.
Why does Checo need help to finish P2 anyway? Guys like PlatinumZealot have called the RB18 absolutely dominant, even more dominant than the best of the Brackley creations. RB won every race since Austria while Charles has been sabotaged by Ferrari all season. How is he struggling to finish this off. The only race of his that was compromised by team orders was Spain and Charles retired from that race.

Quite frankly it's all a bit embarrassing. People are quick to talk about Checo defending in Abu Dhabi, but they completely ignore that he was having an extremely poor 2021 and that is one of the reason it went down to AD in the first place. The RB in Max's hands was absolutely dominant in both Austria races and Mexico last season. Perez couldn't beat Hamilton on any of those weekends. Absolutely embarrassing. RB likely underfueled him in AD in order to speed him up during the race but he was still so slow that the only way he could interfere with Hamilton was to stay out and be caught after Hamilton's first stop. Hamilton had to be very careful around Perez as well as he couldn't risk a crash.

AD '21 is the lest Perez could have done in exchange for not being sacked mid-season because he was driving so poorly except maybe 3-4 races. The narrative being pushed about being responsible for Max's title last year is embarrassing upon further reflection because it never would have gone down to Abu Dhabi if he had driven to even 90% of the car's potential in the rest of the season. Those couple of minutes of fame in AD is the least he could have done. He owed Max that after being a non-factor for 90% of the season, not the other way around.


It's funny watching fans of other driver uphold Perez like some kind of legend who has been disrespected only so they can demonize Max. Yet these same guys trash talk Perez for not being a difficult teammate for Max. The problem is many F1 fans these days are like pigeons or seagulls. They are attracted to shiny things...that the 3-4 decent drives he puts in each season makes them forget about him being absolutely useless for the remaining 15-16 other GP.

Max has done more to help Checo finish P2 this year, than Checo himself! Max has defeated Charles in GPs and removed points from Charles more times than Checo himself did. And Checo was driving an RB18 :?

As I said, it's all a bit embarassing. Checo is not a good enough driver for RB to be getting in PR disasters or needlessly frustrating Max over. In short, he's welcome to try and do his part, but it simply is not worth the trouble when the trouble comes. Max has carried the team on his back all year.

e30ernest
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Re: Monaco Gate 2022

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Jolyon's analysis also says this is suspicious but inconclusive as well. I do agree with Jolyon though, even if this was deliberate, it's a poor excuse for Max not to give up a non-podium spot now that he is already champion.

astracrazy
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Re: Monaco Gate 2022

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:39 pm
Dee wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:09 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:30 pm


Weak sauce. The road was low grip. And others had slides in that same spot.
Other drivers that slid at that spot never pressed the throttle at over 90%, before the apex, and refused to try and stop it crashing. Perez never countersteered to correct it. Perez also slowed down more than any other lap just before that point, almost like he didn't want to damage the car too much.
Wasnt Perez on a good rum there too? Perez is not that type of character to crash on purpose.
So I presume when Pique did it, you thought before hand "he has the type of character to crash on purpose".

f1jcw
f1jcw
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Re: Monaco Gate 2022

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Redbull Statement
As a team we made some mistakes in Brazil. We had not envisaged the situation that unfolded on the last lap and we had not agreed a strategy for such a scenario before the race. Regretfully, Max was only informed at the final corner of the request to give up position without all the necessary information being relayed. This put Max, who has always been an open and fair team player, in a compromising situation with little time to react which was not our intention. Following the race Max spoke openly and honestly, allowing for both drivers to resolve any outstanding issues or concerns. The Team accept Max's reasoning, the conversation was a personal matter which will remain private between the team and no further comment will be made.
The events that followed from a social media point of view are completely unacceptable. The abusive online behaviour towards Max, Checo, the Team and their respective families is shocking and saddening and unfortunately is something that we as a sport are having to address with depressing regularity. There is no place for it in racing or society as a whole and we need to do and be better. At the end of the day this is a sport, we are here to race. Death threats, hate mail, vitriol towards extended family members is deplorable. We value inclusion and want a safe space for everyone to work in and enjoy our sport. The abuse needs to stop.

My comment, so... suddenly Redbull recognise that it is a sport? :lol:

It is all very going tut tut, social media, when it is stired up by their own very own team words and actions.