F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
User avatar
FW17
155
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:56 am

Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

Post

Is it the plan to fit the wheel arch only to the front wheels or both front and rear?

User avatar
Vanja #66
685
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:38 pm

Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

Post

100% positive development, let's hope those parts can be used for overall aero gains and reduce wheel drag by at least 10%. I really like what Ross Brawn is doing with technical side of F1.

Getting slightly smaller width tyres (as somewhat announced for 2026 changes) will also help with this spray, as will overall narrower cars.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

maxxer
maxxer
1
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 11:01 am

Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

Post

Vanja #66 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:19 am
100% positive development, let's hope those parts can be used for overall aero gains and reduce wheel drag by at least 10%. I really like what Ross Brawn is doing with technical side of F1.

Getting slightly smaller width tyres (as somewhat announced for 2026 changes) will also help with this spray, as will overall narrower cars.
Would be nice to see narrower cars again these are just so big so much areo area

User avatar
Vanja #66
685
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:38 pm

Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

Post

maxxer wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:33 am
Would be nice to see narrower cars again these are just so big so much areo area
I hope they get down to 1.9m at least, if 1.8 would slow them down too much. Even those 10cm will make a difference with overtaking and far better low-speed performance, especially since weight will go down as well - finally!
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

User avatar
Holm86
232
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:37 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

Post

Vanja #66 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:48 am
maxxer wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:33 am
Would be nice to see narrower cars again these are just so big so much areo area
I hope they get down to 1.9m at least, if 1.8 would slow them down too much. Even those 10cm will make a difference with overtaking and far better low-speed performance, especially since weight will go down as well - finally!
I don't hope they narrow them back down again, the biggest enemy is the massive increase in wheelbase.
Thats the reason they turn like limo's. The Wheelbase should be at an absolute maximum of 3000mm instead of 3600mm now.

User avatar
Big Tea
95
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

Post

Vanja #66 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:48 am
maxxer wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:33 am
Would be nice to see narrower cars again these are just so big so much areo area
I hope they get down to 1.9m at least, if 1.8 would slow them down too much. Even those 10cm will make a difference with overtaking and far better low-speed performance, especially since weight will go down as well - finally!
You say slow them down, but it would all be comparative to each other. Only numbers would be lower and there may be more actual racing as there would be fractionally more time and more room.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

User avatar
Vanja #66
685
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:38 pm

Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

Post

Holm86 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:57 am
I don't hope they narrow them back down again, the biggest enemy is the massive increase in wheelbase.
Thats the reason they turn like limo's. The Wheelbase should be at an absolute maximum of 3000mm instead of 3600mm now.
You can't really have that much smaller wheelbase without smaller track, you need to maintain their ratio to keep suspension dynamics where you want them. Ferrari F2008 had a WB of around 3200-3250mm with 1800mm max width. Nose was sticking out a lot less until 2017, which is one of the main reasons todays cars feel so much longer than before.

Big Tea wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:36 am
You say slow them down, but it would all be comparative to each other. Only numbers would be lower and there may be more actual racing as there would be fractionally more time and more room.
Yes, of course, I was saying that since 2017 changes were aimed at getting 5s faster cars and nothing else. 100% agreed on racing, 2017 changes were really bad for racing and 2009-2016 rules were already a massive fail to get better racing.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

User avatar
Holm86
232
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:37 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

Post

Vanja #66 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:17 pm
Holm86 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:57 am
I don't hope they narrow them back down again, the biggest enemy is the massive increase in wheelbase.
Thats the reason they turn like limo's. The Wheelbase should be at an absolute maximum of 3000mm instead of 3600mm now.
You can't really have that much smaller wheelbase without smaller track, you need to maintain their ratio to keep suspension dynamics where you want them. Ferrari F2008 had a WB of around 3200-3250mm with 1800mm max width. Nose was sticking out a lot less until 2017, which is one of the main reasons todays cars feel so much longer than before.
Sure you can, in the 80's and 90's cars were more than 2000mm wide, and yet they had a wheelbase of under 3000mm
Image

User avatar
Vanja #66
685
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:38 pm

Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

Post

Holm86 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:22 pm
Sure you can, in the 80's and 90's cars were more than 2000mm wide, and yet they had a wheelbase of under 3000mm
https://preview.redd.it/fq7ifeizzpu81.j ... f5b0085319
Yes and 30 years passed since that time, during which almost every aspect of F1 car design (tyres, aero, engines, weight, safety requirements, etc...) changed completely :) Upvoted for the picture, thanks for sharing :D
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

User avatar
FW17
155
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:56 am

Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

Post

Getting back to the wheel arches, it is a good idea to use it as part of the wet tyres. But the idea of having the race stopped for them to be fitted or taken off seems rather strange.

I would prefer them to be mandatory length for the pit stop, like a min.

Image

User avatar
Big Tea
95
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

Post

What happens if it starts raining half way through a race?
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

User avatar
Vanja #66
685
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:38 pm

Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

Post

They need to be mandatory full time, too big of a change if airflow if they wouldn't be
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

User avatar
jjn9128
752
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

Post

I'm envisioning something more akin to the original FOM concept renders (the top line)

Image
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
79
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

Post

jjn9128 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 6:55 pm
I'm envisioning something more akin to the original FOM concept renders (the top line)
That is neat and tidy. I approve. It would also kill quite a bit of drag under normal conditions.

User avatar
Big Tea
95
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:38 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 6:55 pm
I'm envisioning something more akin to the original FOM concept renders (the top line)
That is neat and tidy. I approve. It would also kill quite a bit of drag under normal conditions.
Looks like no DRS too, which I like
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.