F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

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Edax
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Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

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jjn9128 wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 6:55 pm
I'm envisioning something more akin to the original FOM concept renders (the top line)

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1/2018/09/14/ ... 145207.jpg
I am still undecided. Visually It looks neat I have to admit. I am also not a purist, F1 cars at one time had wheel arches so no reason not to return to them.

But I do see some practicalities which may outweigh the benefits.

One is that a flat tire already has a high chance of making the car undrivable, I think this would make it a guarantee.
Second is that I find the cars are already too heavy, adding additional mandatory bits and pieces does not help. If you give the same weight targets then you give the manufactures no option than to make everything else more flimsy.

yamahasho
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Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

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They should try it but i hope it’s a spec F1 part so teams can’t get an advantage from them, and have the same mounting locations and flex tests.

Additionally a racer could use them as fenders which would enable them to run closer side by side and make more risky passes knowing if they hit another car it would do less damage. It would make for more interesting racing. It would be like bumper cars.

The concept looks so close to an LMP car minus the lights. FIA and drivers say it’s for safety or visibility, at the rate they continue to close the car around them, eventually it will no longer be an open wheel race car.

I believe NASCAR doesn’t even run in the rain or they dry the track with blowers. This doesn’t sound practical for F1 but I have no interest in wet races, it’s not the true pace of the car or represent the true skill of a driver. Wet races are entertaining though.
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FW17
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Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

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The car on wet weather tyres are already in a different aero configuration because of the tyre diameter of the wets and thread design.

The standard design of the wheel arches with soul purpose of reducing the spray from the tyres that is being thrown up is a good idea and should be used for that purpose only. It is to be made part of the wet and intermediate tyre with wheel arches fitted at the time of pitstop. As this would take longer than standard, to keep it fair these pitstops can be made with a minimum time for the stop so that fitting them and removing them can be done without the need for a red flag which is unfair for drivers who have worked hard to earn a competitive advantage on track.

I also feel that the wheel arch should only be behind the tyre and not in front and F1 and teams should explore the possibility of this wheel arch to be part of the hub cap.

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Vanja #66
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Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

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If the idea is really to use them for wet conditions only, it's idiotic. There is a chance to make a positive step and this would one third of it, but the wrong one...
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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FW17
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Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

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What is the positive step you would like to take?

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Vanja #66
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Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

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FW17 wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:12 am
What is the positive step you would like to take?
To use them to reduce overall and wheel drag, thus increasing fuel efficiency and making actually greener cars (1) while improving performance (2). And, of course, to reduce water spray (3).
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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FW17
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Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:26 am
FW17 wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:12 am
What is the positive step you would like to take?
To use them to reduce overall and wheel drag, thus increasing fuel efficiency and making actually greener cars (racing is not green and will never be) (1) while improving performance (that will move away from the open wheel ethos of F1)(2). And, of course, to reduce water spray (not the objective in dry condition(3).

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Vanja #66
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Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

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Electric cars aren't green either, but that doesn't stop manufacturers and lobbyists making those claims. "Green" is a bonus of improving energy/fuel efficiency of a car, which on its own is a pure performance improvement. Using less fuel means you can either go faster for the same fuel over a race, or you can put less fuel and lower the weight to again go faster overall.

If bodywork parts fitted on a car for wet already make a step away from open-wheel racing (which they don't really, but let's say they do), what would be the problem to make them permanent? Pairing standard or tightly regulated bodywork on FW endplate and sculpted panel behind front wheel (like on AM Valkyrie, but attached to chassis and not to wheel arches) that leaves the wheel 100% open on all sides and from every angle is completely aligned with open-wheel racing. And obviously, it would improve performance, reduce drag, reduce dirty wake (clearly a benefit for closer racing, as seen this year) and improve fuel/energy efficiency. Same can be done in some shape and form for rear wheels, obviously.

So yes, you can have benefits for water spray paired with better racing, better performance and keep the open-wheel look.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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FW17
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Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:55 am
Electric cars aren't green either, but that doesn't stop manufacturers and lobbyists making those claims. "Green" is a bonus of improving energy/fuel efficiency of a car, which on its own is a pure performance improvement. Using less fuel means you can either go faster for the same fuel over a race, or you can put less fuel and lower the weight to again go faster overall.

If bodywork parts fitted on a car for wet already make a step away from open-wheel racing (which they don't really, but let's say they do), what would be the problem to make them permanent? Pairing standard or tightly regulated bodywork on FW endplate and sculpted panel behind front wheel (like on AM Valkyrie, but attached to chassis and not to wheel arches) that leaves the wheel 100% open on all sides and from every angle is completely aligned with open-wheel racing. And obviously, it would improve performance, reduce drag, reduce dirty wake (clearly a benefit for closer racing, as seen this year) and improve fuel/energy efficiency. Same can be done in some shape and form for rear wheels, obviously.

So yes, you can have benefits for water spray paired with better racing, better performance and keep the open-wheel look.
We would end up with the current front end of a Formula E car and the rear end of manufacturer bodywork Indycar.
I dont think anyone involved in F1 (participants, administrators or fans) want that

Image
Image

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Vanja #66
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Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

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FW17 wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:18 am
We would end up with the current front end of a Formula E car and the rear end of manufacturer bodywork Indycar.
I dont think anyone involved in F1 (participants, administrators or fans) want that

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-nv3nUVOsi4/maxresdefault.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Tq6CXCHO5CU/maxresdefault.jpg
I understand this comes to mind first, but it's not the only solution and not what I was thinking of at all :) I wouldn't want to see those on F1 cars either :lol:
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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FW17
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Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

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If F1 tries to rework the sidepod bodywork to something (like below) that takes care of the spray and reduces tyre wake while preserving the open wheel nature of F1, it will be great

Image

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Vanja #66
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Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

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It can be done simpler than that, but yes, the idea would be to leave them open completely in top and side view and front/back view would have slightly wider bigger bodywork than current FW endplates
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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FW17
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Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:26 am
It can be done simpler than that, but yes, the idea would be to leave them open completely in top and side view and front/back view would have slightly wider bigger bodywork than current FW endplates
They should not have pods in front of the wheels but something flat like a wider version of what we see on the champcar endplate

Image

mrluke
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Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

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Plenty of nice looking concepts with covers/arches.

Image

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Although a universal bolt on solution is going to look like an afterthought.

I've seen a fair point raise by others though, there's lots of spray on the motorway where all the cars have fully covered wheels. Is it going to markedly improve the situation? Probably worth a test but think it would be best to have them as permanent bodywork.

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Big Tea
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Re: F1 Evaluating ‘Wheel Arches’

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The problem with most of the renderings is pit stops.
Not only changing the wheels, but the driver has to get in
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