2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[mkay]

Majority of overtakes yesterday were either uncontested, or just required little or no driving skill whatsoever. I’ve never bought the idea that the racing has improved, even last year. Yes, they get closer and can follow, but it’s too easy. We all know why it’s been done, to increase overtakes, so it looks like more is happening. The way the commentators even tried to big up that Max was behind Lewis and something interesting was going to happen was embarrassing. As for the Russell overtake, as you said it was F2 v F1. There’s nothing that gets you off your seat anymore. It’s an awful look for the sport, and I assume the fans they attracted will leave just as fast as they came.

This could be due to the high-speed nature of the street circuit and drivers know its very risky if they make contact or spin at over 300km/h. Reckon most drivers are just focusing on sticking to the racing line. The quality of racing is not in the formula, but the track itself.

Overtaking numbers at Jeddah are down year-over-year. And that’s despite Max and Charles starting wildly out of position this year.

[AR3-GP]

Majority of overtakes yesterday were either uncontested, or just required little or no driving skill whatsoever. I’ve never bought the idea that the racing has improved, even last year. Yes, they get closer and can follow, but it’s too easy. We all know why it’s been done, to increase overtakes, so it looks like more is happening. The way the commentators even tried to big up that Max was behind Lewis and something interesting was going to happen was embarrassing. As for the Russell overtake, as you said it was F2 v F1. There’s nothing that gets you off your seat anymore. It’s an awful look for the sport, and I assume the fans they attracted will leave just as fast as they came.

This could be due to the high-speed nature of the street circuit and drivers know its very risky if they make contact or spin at over 300km/h. Reckon most drivers are just focusing on sticking to the racing line. The quality of racing is not in the formula, but the track itself.

Overtaking numbers at Jeddah are down year-over-year. And that’s despite Max and Charles starting wildly out of position this year.

You have to be faster to overtake.

[mendis]

This could be due to the high-speed nature of the street circuit and drivers know its very risky if they make contact or spin at over 300km/h. Reckon most drivers are just focusing on sticking to the racing line. The quality of racing is not in the formula, but the track itself.

Overtaking numbers at Jeddah are down year-over-year. And that’s despite Max and Charles starting wildly out of position this year.

You have to be faster to overtake.

Credit or blame should also go to Pirelli. Their tyres were consistent on all cars. All cars were getting faster as the fuel burnt and no sign of tyres degrading. Traditionally, overtaking depended on DRS and tyre delta. Top 12 all had the same strategy barring one, Lewis. But he didn't have enough to overtake his team mate.

[El_KaPpa]

I remember people were calling Hamilton washed after qualifying. Even with a subpar setup and from far behind, Hamilton can finish very close to Russell.

He was 14 seconds off when SC came in. He then bolted faster tyres and couldn't overtake George and then fell 5 seconds behind. George had the pace on hards that Lewis had on mediums and on hards, Lewis was lost. If that counts as finishing close behind, then good luck.

LeClerc said that "once I got one-and-a-half seconds to Carlos, it was very difficult to get any closer than that".

[mkay]

This could be due to the high-speed nature of the street circuit and drivers know its very risky if they make contact or spin at over 300km/h. Reckon most drivers are just focusing on sticking to the racing line. The quality of racing is not in the formula, but the track itself.

Overtaking numbers at Jeddah are down year-over-year. And that’s despite Max and Charles starting wildly out of position this year.

You have to be faster to overtake.

That is literally my point. Despite two of the fastest drivers starting out of position, 2023 numbers were worse than 2022 numbers (in which the top 4 cars started in the top 4).

[mendis]

I remember people were calling Hamilton washed after qualifying. Even with a subpar setup and from far behind, Hamilton can finish very close to Russell.

He was 14 seconds off when SC came in. He then bolted faster tyres and couldn't overtake George and then fell 5 seconds behind. George had the pace on hards that Lewis had on mediums and on hards, Lewis was lost. If that counts as finishing close behind, then good luck.

LeClerc said that "once I got one-and-a-half seconds to Carlos, it was very difficult to get any closer than that".

Ferrari and Mercedes should use this as a reason to force FIA for another regulation change!

[dfegan358]

If Mercedes are committing to a serious revamp of the car concept and bringing major updates - when is that likely to come? Over summer?
Mercedes in race trim is not as terrible as it would appear in my opinion. Im a Ferrari fan so not biased, if they can finally get a grasp on these regulations I have no doubt that they can produce a seriously fast car to challenge red bull. Much more confident in merc than Ferrari at this stage.

[mkay]

If Mercedes are committing to a serious revamp of the car concept and bringing major updates - when is that likely to come? Over summer?
Mercedes in race trim is not as terrible as it would appear in my opinion. Im a Ferrari fan so not biased, if they can finally get a grasp on these regulations I have no doubt that they can produce a seriously fast car to challenge red bull. Much more confident in merc than Ferrari at this stage.

Race pace gap is probably slightly north of 1s/lap considering that RUS finished 25 seconds away from PER in ~28 laps of racing post-SC.

And we know RB was driving to a mid-32 delta for the last 10-odd laps (PER's PB lap was 32.1 on L38).

[Hammerfist]

Even if they find gobs of downforce and get firmly ahead of the Aston I don’t see them anywhere near Redbull s straight line speed. And let’s face it if it’s gonna be a Redbull copy cat then they will always be second to the original. That’s just how things work in f1. I’m surprised at the big talk coming from Toto. It’s clear to me they are too far away to catch up even next year. Perhaps in 2025 if Redbull gets close to the ceiling of development for their concept. But otherwise I don’t see it.

[wogx]

Brundle gave an interesting two cents in the Sky studio on the subject of the ended cooperation between Cullen and Hamilton.
It turns out that the topic is a bit more complex than just - we don't work together well, so we part ways.

Cullen was with Hamilton when he was at his best as a driver. Over time, her services and salary also began to increase.

Cullen's contract was structured to get her salary and bonuses. Of which her salary was actually built on bonuses. Bonuses at Mercedes are based on the so-called "Performance Clause", i.e. the higher a driver finishes in races, the bigger bonus he gets from Mercedes to be distributed over the part of the garage that achieved this success. Mercedes does not honor with bonuses the places 4-20, only those who finish on the podium.

You know what this entails.... It turns out that in connection with the fact that Mercedes stopped winning races, not only the team of high-level engineers and designers has changed over the past months, but also the mechanics. They too, through the lack of success in 2022, got hit quite hard in the pocket, some of them left for other teams and some rotated.

Cullen also got hit pretty hard in the pocket because of this. No wins from Hamilton and Mercedes and the golden goose starts to rust.

Sure - in 2022 Hamilton could still compensate her part of the salary resulting from the lack of results, but in 2023, seeing the prospect of no wins himself, he had to start rethinking the question of keeping Cullen. - Can he afford it personally?

Sure, he could keep 20x such servants running around him. However, he decided to end his partnership with her.

Was firing her supposed to be a signal to Toto?

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

[chrisc90]

I thought she was paid for by Lewis? I’m sure I did see it written on here she was paid from him.

Now whether Lewis was using his ‘podium bonuses’ to pay her salary, is a different question. I’m more than sure Lewis can afford to keep her when he has the 2nd highest salary in F1 - ever.


Now it’s interesting the mechanics got mentioned, as if their salary is topped up with a bonus for where the car finishes, that would mean a lot of the team isn’t getting what they were 2 years ago in 2021.

I’m not convinced the core of the race day team will be finishing position bonus for wages.

[mendis]

Brundle gave an interesting two cents in the Sky studio on the subject of the ended cooperation between Cullen and Hamilton.
It turns out that the topic is a bit more complex than just - we don't work together well, so we part ways.

Cullen was with Hamilton when he was at his best as a driver. Over time, her services and salary also began to increase.

Cullen's contract was structured to get her salary and bonuses. Of which her salary was actually built on bonuses. Bonuses at Mercedes are based on the so-called "Performance Clause", i.e. the higher a driver finishes in races, the bigger bonus he gets from Mercedes to be distributed over the part of the garage that achieved this success. Mercedes does not honor with bonuses the places 4-20, only those who finish on the podium.

You know what this entails.... It turns out that in connection with the fact that Mercedes stopped winning races, not only the team of high-level engineers and designers has changed over the past months, but also the mechanics. They too, through the lack of success in 2022, got hit quite hard in the pocket, some of them left for other teams and some rotated.

Cullen also got hit pretty hard in the pocket because of this. No wins from Hamilton and Mercedes and the golden goose starts to rust.

Sure - in 2022 Hamilton could still compensate her part of the salary resulting from the lack of results, but in 2023, seeing the prospect of no wins himself, he had to start rethinking the question of keeping Cullen. - Can he afford it personally?

Sure, he could keep 20x such servants running around him. However, he decided to end his partnership with her.

Was firing her supposed to be a signal to Toto?

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

It seems he is not going to sign an extention if this is some sort of indication. He could definitely keep her as he can easily afford to pay her salary, including whatever bonus that would be missing, if it was all about money. If the car performance takes a miraculous upturn, he might ask her to reconsider the decision. By summer break if things doesn't improve to put Mercedes in the Red Bull territory, he might just announce his retirement, as an extention to Angela Cullen's exit. It would be a wrap for Mike Elliott too I guess, an unceremonious one! Question is, what would Toto do?

[toraabe]

Even if they find gobs of downforce and get firmly ahead of the Aston I don’t see them anywhere near Redbull s straight line speed. And let’s face it if it’s gonna be a Redbull copy cat then they will always be second to the original. That’s just how things work in f1. I’m surprised at the big talk coming from Toto. It’s clear to me they are too far away to catch up even next year. Perhaps in 2025 if Redbull gets close to the ceiling of development for their concept. But otherwise I don’t see it.

When it comes to straight line speed. I think that the Mercedes final drive is a bit short. RB and Ferrari shifts to 8th at 300-305. Mercedes at 280 285 at the same Rpm. It could mean that the PU goes out of breath a bit early..

[Hammerfist]

Even if they find gobs of downforce and get firmly ahead of the Aston I don’t see them anywhere near Redbull s straight line speed. And let’s face it if it’s gonna be a Redbull copy cat then they will always be second to the original. That’s just how things work in f1. I’m surprised at the big talk coming from Toto. It’s clear to me they are too far away to catch up even next year. Perhaps in 2025 if Redbull gets close to the ceiling of development for their concept. But otherwise I don’t see it.

When it comes to straight line speed. I think that the Mercedes final drive is a bit short. RB and Ferrari shifts to 8th at 300-305. Mercedes at 280 285 at the same Rpm. It could mean that the PU goes out of breath a bit early..

Well if they lack power then they need that shorter 8th gear. Redbull probably utilize that longer gear because they’re capable of higher top speeds. Good point though. It’s probably confirmation the Merc pu is underpowered.

[chrisc90]

The shorter ratios normally account for a faster accelerating car. I don’t think gear ratios have anything to do with it to be fair