2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Xyz22]

There has to be something terribly wrong with Ferrari's processes. These race pace issues have existed on and off since 2018. Mercedes and Red Bull on the other hand always know how to take care of the tyres over a race distance. Even when Mercedes were in the gutter early last year they didn't have excessive tyre wear. I remember years ago I read something about "dynamic test benches" in the Italian media, and that Merc & RB both have them but Ferrari don't.

The F1-75 started the year constantly losing races to Red Bull because of poor race pace, they fixed it with the Spain update but the balance was ruined by the TD. Ferrari had months to remedy the issues that came with the TD but all that improved was the straight line speed. I struggle to blame them too much because August was far too late for them to change car/floor concept.

All they can do now is toss this car in the bin and start from scratch with the RB concept which clearly works, but even that is complicated by the fact that they're trying to rebuild the technical structure. This team is a total mess right now. All that preaching about stability and we're right back to square one, just comical.

Can we please stop changing reality? Ferrari was slower in Imola and Miami where RB brought an important aero update + weight reduction upgrades.
There was no tyre consumption issue before the TD 039 which made the car simply slower and thus incapable of keeping up with the RB18.

In 2018 there were also no issues at all before the Singapore upgrade package that made the car slower instead of improving the performance.

[AR3-GP]

^ Agreed.

[hape]

This question can be asked under almost every post of the last couple of days in this thread. Armchair experts are sure of the concept being a failure because of some wild reasoning such as the one from Alonsismo.

The main concept "failure" for Ferrari and every other team is not running the car low enough, like RB. Ferrari was running the car very low in Bahrain, but this caused other balance issues. I suspect they overcorrected for Jeddah, now lacking downforce in corners despite bigger rear wing.

Hard tyre issue could point to an overcorrection of too much tyre heat-up, leading to insufficient heat-up like Hungary 2022. They clearly didn't expect that, so (along with very poor strategy decisions) all's not well in race operations dept.

In fact Sainz was saying in the interview, the hard tyre was overheating already without chasing the car in front. This would suggest there is a lot of performance to gain when they can get tyre temperature under control. It would also collaborate with the fact that their race pace is way worse compared to the single lap qualifying pace. The tyres are simply overheating when pushed. Maybe the new suspension is not working great with these tyres for this year.
The only thing strange to me is how Leclerc could still get decent pace and life from the soft tyre without overheating.

[Xyz22]

This question can be asked under almost every post of the last couple of days in this thread. Armchair experts are sure of the concept being a failure because of some wild reasoning such as the one from Alonsismo.

The main concept "failure" for Ferrari and every other team is not running the car low enough, like RB. Ferrari was running the car very low in Bahrain, but this caused other balance issues. I suspect they overcorrected for Jeddah, now lacking downforce in corners despite bigger rear wing.

Hard tyre issue could point to an overcorrection of too much tyre heat-up, leading to insufficient heat-up like Hungary 2022. They clearly didn't expect that, so (along with very poor strategy decisions) all's not well in race operations dept.

In fact Sainz was saying in the interview, the hard tyre was overheating already without chasing the car in front. This would suggest there is a lot of performance to gain when they can get tyre temperature under control. It would also collaborate with the fact that their race pace is way worse compared to the single lap qualifying pace. The tyres are simply overheating when pushed. Maybe the new suspension is not working great with these tyres for this year.
The only thing strange to me is how Leclerc could still get decent pace and life from the soft tyre without overheating.

I'm not buying into this "tyres were overheating" narrative. Leclerc was having a good and competitive race with the soft compound which didn't show any specific issue in the first stint as expected considering the nature of the track (opposite of Bahrain asphalt + long straights that allow the tyres to drop temperature). The second stint also didn't show any particular sign of excessive deg, simply the car was slow from the start.

[Cassius]

they moved to redbull concept

Honestly, quite sad. Would have been great to see two different designs equally fast and compete.

When will people stop believing anything Nugnes says?

[jambuka]

Still have a feeling there is more performance to be found in the setup. Bahrain has very high deg, Jeddah very low deg. Both of the tracks either mask or amplify the issues which could cause the team to miss the setups, especially when you have big changes and are still understanding the car.

[Sevach]

they moved to redbull concept

Honestly, quite sad. Would have been great to see two different designs equally fast and compete.

When will people stop believing anything Nugnes says?

Wasn't he the one who said Ferrari would have a big cannon exit for this season?

[mzso]

I’m fairly confident that this is not going to happen. Just smokes from Nugnes. The concept is fine.

It is fine, only a lot slower than RB's. But it does go slowly well.

Changing the concept and going RB way would be a disaster. They already are so far ahead with the concept. Might as well pack up and not race for 2 years. I wouldn't be surprised they just give up and say we are going to focus on next year's car. Same old.

Or say they're preparing 2026, for freshness sake.
Anyway, it worked out well for Aston. They changed concepts twice within 12 months.

[mzso]

I don't know why there is talking about the concept when the F1 75 (based on this exact concept) was way faster. To me it seems the issue is not within the concept itself, but on the actual execution. For now, the SF 23 is just slow.

Let's see what happens in Melbourne.

The F1 75 raced with different regs, and already lost out in pace to RB. This iteration with this year's regs is at an even bigger handicap.
You can't say the concept is right any more then the other guy say that it's wrong.

[mzso]

Do they want to fall into the same trap as Mercedes? Spend all year trying to make a concept work? Or should they just take the hit and change now?

What doesn’t make sense though is if they ARE going to change concept, why wait till next year? How will Mercedes do it this year within the Cap?

In my opinion, everyone always should be looking for a superior concept. Especially in this day and age of cost cap. Deliver one concept, leave some low lever resources to minor updates and optimization, and look for the next leap.

Gone are the days when Mercedes and others could just simulate test every potential change, meanwhile inspecting god knows how many concepts for next year's car.

[jambuka]

I’m fairly confident that this is not going to happen. Just smokes from Nugnes. The concept is fine.

It is fine, only a lot slower than RB's. But it does go slowly well.

Changing the concept and going RB way would be a disaster. They already are so far ahead with the concept. Might as well pack up and not race for 2 years. I wouldn't be surprised they just give up and say we are going to focus on next year's car. Same old.

Or say they're preparing 2026, for freshness sake.
Anyway, it worked out well for Aston. They changed concepts twice within 12 months.

Exactly even AMR has a jump on this concept now. The best they will get to is 3rd. Which is still possible with the existing concept.

[Vanja #66]

It's not about the concept you see on top, it's not a W13. It's about getting it into the right working window and about Sainz being incapable of getting anywhere near the car's potential. We're yet to see an un-compromised race for Leclerc to get an idea where the car is at. Sadly, the strategy errors are still there and the pit wall is still bad, Hards for Leclerc were an obvious no-no, but they still did it.

[bluechris]

It's not about the concept you see on top, it's not a W13. It's about getting it into the right working window and about Sainz being incapable of getting anywhere near the car's potential. We're yet to see an un-compromised race for Leclerc to get an idea where the car is at. Sadly, the strategy errors are still there and the pit wall is still bad, Hards for Leclerc were an obvious no-no, but they still did it.

I agree with this, lets not forget and remind ourselfs from time to time that in Ferrari 1 driver is doing the development work and this is not Sainz

[Venturiation]

It's not about the concept you see on top, it's not a W13. It's about getting it into the right working window and about Sainz being incapable of getting anywhere near the car's potential. We're yet to see an un-compromised race for Leclerc to get an idea where the car is at. Sadly, the strategy errors are still there and the pit wall is still bad, Hards for Leclerc were an obvious no-no, but they still did it.

it is worse than W13

ferrari said the made big gains and the car was already 1 second faster than F 75

in reality it is worse and slower than last year cars when comparing the same tracks

same story when everyone was saying W13 is 1 second faster in the simulator

[Xwang]

It's not about the concept you see on top, it's not a W13. It's about getting it into the right working window and about Sainz being incapable of getting anywhere near the car's potential. We're yet to see an un-compromised race for Leclerc to get an idea where the car is at. Sadly, the strategy errors are still there and the pit wall is still bad, Hards for Leclerc were an obvious no-no, but they still did it.

it is worse than W13

ferrari said the made big gains and the car was already 1 second faster than F 75

in reality it is worse and slower than last year cars when comparing the same tracks

same story when everyone was saying W13 is 1 second faster in the simulator

I agree with you ... It reminds me 1991 ... After the competitive 1990 Ferrari presented a small evolution of it, but meantime there were some minor modifications to the technical rules and the improvements of other team and Ferrari became worst than a Truck (as Prost said).