2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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dans79
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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ringo wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 2:46 pm
Yes Perez would have even overtaken about 6 to 10 cars in one lap because of the conditions.
I did like the race however, it had good action. A bit frustrating with not much movement in the end, but there was no relaxing for the drivers. Even Max had a slight concern with Alonso at the restart.
Imo, that's one of the issue with allowing all the reflag changes. Imo, they shouldn't be allowed to change anything!
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SiLo
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 3:02 pm
ringo wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 2:46 pm
Yes Perez would have even overtaken about 6 to 10 cars in one lap because of the conditions.
I did like the race however, it had good action. A bit frustrating with not much movement in the end, but there was no relaxing for the drivers. Even Max had a slight concern with Alonso at the restart.
Imo, that's one of the issue with allowing all the reflag changes. Imo, they shouldn't be allowed to change anything!
I think they should be able to change tryes for conditions (wet > dry, dry > wet) but other than that nothing else. Car is damaged? Tough luck, maybe don't crash next time. Worn tires? Tough, others pit before you and lost time, it's just the way the cookie crumbles.
Felipe Baby!

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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SiLo wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 3:55 pm
dans79 wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 3:02 pm
ringo wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 2:46 pm
Yes Perez would have even overtaken about 6 to 10 cars in one lap because of the conditions.
I did like the race however, it had good action. A bit frustrating with not much movement in the end, but there was no relaxing for the drivers. Even Max had a slight concern with Alonso at the restart.
Imo, that's one of the issue with allowing all the reflag changes. Imo, they shouldn't be allowed to change anything!
I think they should be able to change tryes for conditions (wet > dry, dry > wet) but other than that nothing else. Car is damaged? Tough luck, maybe don't crash next time. Worn tires? Tough, others pit before you and lost time, it's just the way the cookie crumbles.
If you don't let the people who didn't stop change tires, then the people who pitted got a free stop. If you let the people who didn't stop change tires, then they get the free pitstop. The red flag itself corrupts the outcome no matter what. Deciding whether or not tires should be changed actually doesn't have a moral conviction one way or the other since there's always a loser. I guess you could toss a coin during the red flag, to decide...which would make it slightly more "fair" since it's a random outcome if tires can be changed or not.

The only true fair way would be to try and reset the gaps between the cars after the red flag but this is entertainment and intervention period "repacking" is "good for the show" even if morally incorrect in the true spirit of holding a race.
A lion must kill its prey.

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Wouter
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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The Power of Dreams!

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Sieper
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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F1 listened, they made a YouTube clip with more insight to the first 10 laps. Still missing a lot of the action but the radio is nice to listen to.


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organic
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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Just watched back gasly's onboard to listen to his radio at critical moments. He made the right calls each time and had what I think was the optimal strategy.. boxed on lap 1, 9 and 60. Not sure you can have done better.

Also interesting is that from his radio, I heard Gasly got dinged for track limits when Verstappen forced him off at T3, but then they didn't investigate Verstappen pushing him off the track :? There was also contact of front left of Verstappen and Gasly rear right tyre coming into T3, similar to the contact that caused Russell a race ending puncture. Tsunoda got a penalty for it.

In both cases, it is instances of stewards penalizing the outcome rather than the incident. Hopeless
Last edited by organic on Wed Aug 30, 2023 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Sieper
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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AR3-GP wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 4:48 pm
SiLo wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 3:55 pm
dans79 wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 3:02 pm


Imo, that's one of the issue with allowing all the reflag changes. Imo, they shouldn't be allowed to change anything!
I think they should be able to change tryes for conditions (wet > dry, dry > wet) but other than that nothing else. Car is damaged? Tough luck, maybe don't crash next time. Worn tires? Tough, others pit before you and lost time, it's just the way the cookie crumbles.
If you don't let the people who didn't stop change tires, then the people who pitted got a free stop. If you let the people who didn't stop change tires, then they get the free pitstop. The red flag itself corrupts the outcome no matter what. Deciding whether or not tires should be changed actually doesn't have a moral conviction one way or the other since there's always a loser. I guess you could toss a coin during the red flag, to decide...which would make it slightly more "fair" since it's a random outcome if tires can be changed or not.

The only true fair way would be to try and reset the gaps between the cars after the red flag but this is entertainment and intervention period "repacking" is "good for the show" even if morally incorrect in the true spirit of holding a race.
Reinstate the pre redflag gaps? That’s what they do in cycling when a race gets temporarily stopped.

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organic
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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Lando's comms during lap 1-3

https://i.imgur.com/Or7iNtc.mp4

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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organic wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2023 3:50 am
Lando's comms during lap 1-3

https://i.imgur.com/Or7iNtc.mp4
The segment from 40 seconds onwards :lol: :lol: :lol:
A lion must kill its prey.

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SiLo
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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AR3-GP wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 4:48 pm
SiLo wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 3:55 pm
dans79 wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2023 3:02 pm


Imo, that's one of the issue with allowing all the reflag changes. Imo, they shouldn't be allowed to change anything!
I think they should be able to change tryes for conditions (wet > dry, dry > wet) but other than that nothing else. Car is damaged? Tough luck, maybe don't crash next time. Worn tires? Tough, others pit before you and lost time, it's just the way the cookie crumbles.
If you don't let the people who didn't stop change tires, then the people who pitted got a free stop. If you let the people who didn't stop change tires, then they get the free pitstop. The red flag itself corrupts the outcome no matter what. Deciding whether or not tires should be changed actually doesn't have a moral conviction one way or the other since there's always a loser. I guess you could toss a coin during the red flag, to decide...which would make it slightly more "fair" since it's a random outcome if tires can be changed or not.

The only true fair way would be to try and reset the gaps between the cars after the red flag but this is entertainment and intervention period "repacking" is "good for the show" even if morally incorrect in the true spirit of holding a race.
True, but those that pitted before the red flag gave up track position. It's not their fault the tyres are always --- and it makes such a massive difference.
Felipe Baby!

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Wouter
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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10 Minutes That Changed The Race in Zandvoort | 2023 Dutch Grand Prix

29 aug 2023 #F1 #DutchGP
Watch back the chaotic opening few laps from the Dutch Grand Prix with unheard team radios in Zandvoort.
The Power of Dreams!

CHT
CHT
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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Record 9 wins in a roll for Max and RBR is simply amazing. Fast and reliable car plus a driver that pushes the limit and hardly makes any mistakes.

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FW17
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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organic wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2023 3:50 am
Lando's comms during lap 1-3

https://i.imgur.com/Or7iNtc.mp4
When Max had some words to GP in Spa is was worth doing multiple pages and video segments done by the Brit media. Lando outright abuses an engineer on international TV and not a peep about it.

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Juzh
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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FW17 wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2023 7:38 am
organic wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2023 3:50 am
Lando's comms during lap 1-3

https://i.imgur.com/Or7iNtc.mp4
When Max had some words to GP in Spa is was worth doing multiple pages and video segments done by the Brit media. Lando outright abuses an engineer on international TV and not a peep about it.
Funny how that goes, it's thursday already so there should be at least 10 articles on the-race.com, 3 shorts and a podcast "analysing" this whole lando/lopez dynamic, but there's none somehow.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort, Aug 25 - 27

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FW17 wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2023 7:38 am
organic wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2023 3:50 am
Lando's comms during lap 1-3

https://i.imgur.com/Or7iNtc.mp4
When Max had some words to GP in Spa is was worth doing multiple pages and video segments done by the Brit media. Lando outright abuses an engineer on international TV and not a peep about it.
Zing! :lol: :lol: :lol:
A lion must kill its prey.