The Meredith effect. Spitfire, Hurricane and others also used it but the P51 is the one that got it right. What a difference a few years make in aircraft design.Vanja #66 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 4:07 pmYes, absolutely, variable outlet geometry would be a nice add on. P-51 had a variable outlet and at high speeds the whole radiator ducting system actually generated thrust due to massive nozzle outlet velocity.wuzak wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 4:02 pmWhat about active cooling ducts?
Piston engine aircraft from teh WW2 era had adjustable exit flaps to control the mass flow through the radiator or cooling fins.
The Allison P-51s/Mustang I/II even had an adjustable inlet.
Could doing something similar also give a drag benefit?
Some road cars have panels to close off or open cooling ducts depending on cooling and aero needs.
One could still make an argument for difference tracks requiring different wings - Monaco is always going to want as much as you can bolt on, for example, and Monza as little as possible. Having said that, Monza should benefit most from this new system as you can carry more wing for the chicanes and still have good straight line drag.
My scepticism stems from the fact that I fear F1 is turning into a computer game.organic wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 3:45 pmThe FIA have explained this themselves. They need the drag reduction at front and rear in order to prevent drivers from lift and coasting halfway down every straight.chrstphrln wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 3:43 pmI have massive doubts that active aerodynamics makes any sense.
There is no DRS, instead there is a push-to-pass button. Okay.
But why the heck should the wings be movable now if every driver can do it on every lap on certain sections of the track anyway?
Why not just leave it at that and save unnecessary weight and error-prone technology?
I think that's a wrong approach.
The new engine formula requires significantly less drag and active aero was the way to achieve this without losing too much downforce.
With the new engines with big battery and crush structures probably that's the best they can do. If I remember correctly James Vowles said they don't expect anyone to hit or reach that limit.Cs98 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 4:55 pmMost disappointing thing is the small weight reduction. Only 30kg from these behemoths? You couldn't even get back to like 2018 levels? Cars that were bigger and faster yet no one considered them "dangerous". More weight out would have made up for a lot of the reduction in power and downforce.
Power units are 30kg heavier and they've increased safety requirements in many places like a 2-stage front impact. So they have probably done an okay job. Hopefully next engine regulation we ditch hybridsCs98 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 4:55 pmMost disappointing thing is the small weight reduction. Only 30kg from these behemoths? You couldn't even get back to like 2018 levels? Cars that were bigger and faster yet no one considered them "dangerous". More weight out would have made up for a lot of the reduction in power and downforce.
hugely different ie trivial at car speeds (dynamic pressure etc being far less)Just_a_fan wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 4:32 pmYes, absolutely, variable outlet geometry would be a nice add on. P-51 had a variable outlet and at high speeds the whole radiator ducting system actually generated thrust due to massive nozzle outlet velocity.
The Meredith effect. Spitfire, Hurricane and others also used it but the P51 is the one that got it right. What a difference a few years make in aircraft design.
This is crucial.organic wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 4:58 pmPower units are 30kg heavier and they've increased safety requirements in many places like a 2-stage front impact. So they have probably done an okay job. Hopefully next engine regulation we ditch hybridsCs98 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 4:55 pmMost disappointing thing is the small weight reduction. Only 30kg from these behemoths? You couldn't even get back to like 2018 levels? Cars that were bigger and faster yet no one considered them "dangerous". More weight out would have made up for a lot of the reduction in power and downforce.
I fully agree and can't wait to gloat when we're rightchrstphrln wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 4:47 pmMy scepticism stems from the fact that I fear F1 is turning into a computer game.organic wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 3:45 pmThe FIA have explained this themselves. They need the drag reduction at front and rear in order to prevent drivers from lift and coasting halfway down every straight.chrstphrln wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 3:43 pmI have massive doubts that active aerodynamics makes any sense.
There is no DRS, instead there is a push-to-pass button. Okay.
But why the heck should the wings be movable now if every driver can do it on every lap on certain sections of the track anyway?
Why not just leave it at that and save unnecessary weight and error-prone technology?
I think that's a wrong approach.
The new engine formula requires significantly less drag and active aero was the way to achieve this without losing too much downforce.
Maybe I'm getting old, but switching back and forth between X and Z mode, in addition to the overtaking button, complicated rules such as the energy release of the vehicle in front decreases after 290 km/h and drops to zero at 355 km/h, while the vehicle behind benefits from an MGU-K override that delivers 350 kilowatts at up to 337 km/h with an additional thrust of 0.5 megajoules...
Honestly?
What's the point of all this?
Since when has racing got better if you have to make the cars even more complex and complicated to operate?
It's not as if other things like engine mapping, brake balance and tyre management don't need any more attention, as the loading functions have to be added!
Anyone who now complains that the drivers have to pay more attention to tyre management than to racing will, I fear, experience races in the future in which management of the MGU-K controlled from the pits leaves even less room for racing.
When it came to making the cars lighter and simpler again, I wasn't talking about what is now being presented.
It's going to be more than 70kg because they will need to burn fuel to top up the battery.quincalla wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 5:33 pmSo about MOM (weird acronym btw), where's that extra energy coming from? Is everybody always saving a certain percentage of battery charge for when they can use it?
Edit: Also correct me if I'm wrong but they are supposed to do the races on 70kg of fuel vs the current 100, no? That's a 60kg difference at the start of the race, not bad.
No, the power units are not 30kg heavier.organic wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 4:58 pmPower units are 30kg heavier and they've increased safety requirements in many places like a 2-stage front impact. So they have probably done an okay job. Hopefully next engine regulation we ditch hybridsCs98 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 4:55 pmMost disappointing thing is the small weight reduction. Only 30kg from these behemoths? You couldn't even get back to like 2018 levels? Cars that were bigger and faster yet no one considered them "dangerous". More weight out would have made up for a lot of the reduction in power and downforce.