2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Jurgen von Diaz]

If they are going to sack Pérez in the summer, it is a continuation of the Horner text scandal and Newey's exit, where the organization is messed up and making poor decisions.

This sentence I do not understand. If they sack Perez it is not a poor discission, right? The only error I can see if they keep him too long and the sponsor money can not fill up the loss.

I meant that they should have sacked Pérez in the first place, not given him an extension. It shows poor judgment, and it can be seen at Toro Rosso as well, where they are keeping Lawson on cold and can't make up their minds about whether to sack or promote Ricciardo.

[TeamKoolGreen]

As far as Lawson goes , how do we really know ? Everyone just assumes it will be Gasly 3.0.

Lawson has a similar temperament to Oscar Piastri. I just don't see him getting bent out of shape trying to beat Max.

He beat Tsonoda on his first 2 tries.

If Lawson was faster than Tsunoda he'd already have been in the RB. Lawson didn't "beat" Tsunoda by any margin, more or less was over-aggressive within intra-team battle and Yuki had to back off, at his home race no less. Probably taught Yuki to step it up.

As I remember , Lawson out qualified Tsunoda twice. We usually call that the faster driver

[TeamKoolGreen]

When the car works, Newey is the magician behind suspension and now when it doesn't work, he doesn't agree with the design decisions. Just funny how the narrative is around him.

Yeah. It sounds like Wacha should have been up there to present the RB20 but it was Adrien taking all the credit for the car and the first half

[ispano6]

As far as Lawson goes , how do we really know ? Everyone just assumes it will be Gasly 3.0.

Lawson has a similar temperament to Oscar Piastri. I just don't see him getting bent out of shape trying to beat Max.

He beat Tsonoda on his first 2 tries.

If Lawson was faster than Tsunoda he'd already have been in the RB. Lawson didn't "beat" Tsunoda by any margin, more or less was over-aggressive within intra-team battle and Yuki had to back off, at his home race no less. Probably taught Yuki to step it up.

As I remember , Lawson out qualified Tsunoda twice. We usually call that the faster driver

Which races? From when Ric was injured at Zandvoort, Yuki out-qualified Lawson at the Dutch and Italy GP. Only Singapore did Liam "beat" Yuki, but more so Yuki made mistakes and didn't show his out-right pace. And then Yuki out-qualified Liam again in Suzuka, however Liam was aggressive on the opening lap and forced Yuki to take evasive action or get taken out by his teammate on home soil. So yeah, Liam showed impressive results subbing in for Ricciardo, but hasn't shown that he should leap-frog Yuki to the RBR seat. I suspect Yuki is being snubbed because he is a Honda driver, a shame really considering RBR will still be using HONDA power units in 2025.

[basti313]

If they are going to sack Pérez in the summer, it is a continuation of the Horner text scandal and Newey's exit, where the organization is messed up and making poor decisions.

This sentence I do not understand. If they sack Perez it is not a poor discission, right? The only error I can see if they keep him too long and the sponsor money can not fill up the loss.

I meant that they should have sacked Pérez in the first place, not given him an extension. It shows poor judgment, and it can be seen at Toro Rosso as well, where they are keeping Lawson on cold and can't make up their minds about whether to sack or promote Ricciardo.

You are still referring to the extension as a standard extension in terms that they are bound for additional 2 years.
But I do not see it as this at all, everything we quite certainly know so far more relates to a last straw by Perez. He subscribed on the point that he gambled on his performance to not be out at the end of this year. RedBull handed him this straw provided he agrees to the performance clause and removing his equal treatment.

And this is quite hard facts judging the reactions and what we see on the car. No "maybe he always had the performance clause". That does not make much sense as he always had 1 year contracts.

The big question still is the details. Does the new contract also remove the sponsorship issues with sacking him? Maybe the old contract even had a link between the equal treatment, being in the car and the sponsor money. My bet here is, that the new performance clause lifts the RedBull obligations. Thus, it gives the chance to sack Perez without loosing huge money.

And everything is happening now: RedBull has an option on Lawson in September. It totally makes sense, that RedBull pushed for a solution and towards the option for Perez to either fulfill the performance clause and be in the car 2025 or to loose it and be out in the summer.

[organic]

This sentence I do not understand. If they sack Perez it is not a poor discission, right? The only error I can see if they keep him too long and the sponsor money can not fill up the loss.

I meant that they should have sacked Pérez in the first place, not given him an extension. It shows poor judgment, and it can be seen at Toro Rosso as well, where they are keeping Lawson on cold and can't make up their minds about whether to sack or promote Ricciardo.

RedBull handed him this straw provided he agrees to the performance clause and removing his equal treatment.

Yes this precisely

[f1isgood]

When the car works, Newey is the magician behind suspension and now when it doesn't work, he doesn't agree with the design decisions. Just funny how the narrative is around him.

This comment is funny given the wider Red Bull narrative is that he is no big loss because he wasn’t actually involved in the development of the RB20

It's more nuanced than that. Red Bull will naturally try to downplay his involvement, given he is leaving - because what use is it to do anything else?

However, when RB was the dominant car, it was Newey magic. When the car issues showed up, the media has already backflipped on this narrative and is piling on the rest of Red Bull technical team.

In the end, if people recall Red Bull were always a bit iffy about this car concept change from the beginning. As it would turn out they were more than somewhat right -- they are comfortably not the fastest car and have not been for more than 7 races now. Maybe it is a good lesson learnt and optimistically they will fix it at Hungary.

[AR3-GP]

More information now starting to come in about the upcoming update to the RB20 for the #HungarianGP. Here is what I have heard,

only 1 upgrade will be available for FP and the race, and this will go on the title contender Max Verstappens car

from a lap time standpoint, this is the biggest update so far this year for the car. If all goes as per plan (simulation) this should be a good step for the car

I’m told the updates will be visual, and the aero kit will be visually noticeable. One person told me “it looks quite different.”

some of the focus of this update package is to again find gains in how the car uses the Tyres, which can be a differentiator in Hungary.

Improvement in tire usage will go a long way towards usability of the car in race conditions.

[SirBastianVettel]

A lot is riding on this update. Let's see how they perform under pressure, I wonder if they've rushed it. If it doesn't deliver it can have serious consequences for this team imo: '24 and '25 WCC, '25 WDC, '25 VER... I'm excited to see what they've come up with and if they've reverted some of the earlier updates.

[Sergej]

" If all goes as per plan"

let's see, this year it hardly went as per plan upgrade wise, we need this one to work.

[AR3-GP]

" If all goes as per plan"

let's see, this year it hardly went as per plan upgrade wise, we need this one to work.

Red Bull never said that the previous upgrades didn't work. When they launched the Suzuka package, Adrian Newey said the following:

“Well, we know our performance, theoretically,” he said, with Kravitz quickly asking what it may have been: “I’m not telling you that bit!”

Referring to the upgrade package, Newey said, “As far as we can see from the pressure sensors and the load cells, it delivered what it said on the tin from the wind tunnel. It was a small step forward.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/adrian-ne ... grand-prix#:

The media now says Adrian Newey "hated" it and it was a downgrade.

[Sergej]

" If all goes as per plan"

let's see, this year it hardly went as per plan upgrade wise, we need this one to work.

Red Bull never said that the previous upgrades didn't work. When they launched the Suzuka package, Adrian Newey said the following:

“Well, we know our performance, theoretically,” he said, with Kravitz quickly asking what it may have been: “I’m not telling you that bit!”

Referring to the upgrade package, Newey said, “As far as we can see from the pressure sensors and the load cells, it delivered what it said on the tin from the wind tunnel. It was a small step forward.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/adrian-ne ... grand-prix#:

This is the update that the media are now claiming that Adrian Newey "hated" and was a downgrade. Certain parts of F1 media are just writing "Red Bull is burning" fan fiction for their audiences. I won't name any specific out1ets or journa1ist.

Wait, I am not buying at all the PR formu1a.uno is selling, but, Newey or not, we can safely say that the upgrades that RB brought so far didn't deliver at best, to say the least; they said they changed the concept to have more room of improvement but they burnt a half a second lead in a few races, even though they kept bringing updates; you also have multiple quotes from Marko saying "I'm expecting a lot from this update" but this lot didn't appear on track.

I mean it's normal, I'm not pointing the finger at the team, diminishing returns, reality not quite matching simulator, etc, these are normal things in F1 but I think this is the picture at the moment.

You also have the disclaimer from DrObbs "You can have great results on the simulator that don’t translate to the track." which is quite telling imho.

[AR3-GP]

" If all goes as per plan"

let's see, this year it hardly went as per plan upgrade wise, we need this one to work.

Red Bull never said that the previous upgrades didn't work. When they launched the Suzuka package, Adrian Newey said the following:

“Well, we know our performance, theoretically,” he said, with Kravitz quickly asking what it may have been: “I’m not telling you that bit!”

Referring to the upgrade package, Newey said, “As far as we can see from the pressure sensors and the load cells, it delivered what it said on the tin from the wind tunnel. It was a small step forward.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/adrian-ne ... grand-prix#:

This is the update that the media are now claiming that Adrian Newey "hated" and was a downgrade. Certain parts of F1 media are just writing "Red Bull is burning" fan fiction for their audiences. I won't name any specific out1ets or journa1ist.

Wait, I am not buying at all the PR formu1a.uno is selling, but, Newey or not, we can safely say that the upgrades that RB brought so far didn't deliver at best, to say the least; they said they changed the concept to have more room of improvement but they burnt a half a second lead in a few races, even though they kept bringing updates; you also have multiple quotes from Marko saying "I'm expecting a lot from this update" but this lot didn't appear on track.

I mean it's normal, I'm not pointing the finger at the team, diminishing returns, reality not quite matching simulator, etc, these are normal things in F1 but I think this is the picture at the moment.

You also have the disclaimer from DrObbs "You can have great results on the simulator that don’t translate to the track." which is quite telling imho.

Mclaren brought a 6 tenths update in Miami. I don't see a case of updates which have not delivered. Newey said the Suzuka update delivered, and Max and Marko said the Imola package worked. We can't rewrite that now. Dr. Obbs said the Barcelona stuff was insignificant and that the big update was still to come (Hungary). It is more a case of the previous steps just not being that big for one reason or another (ATR restrictions and/or not being clever enough)

These updates also need to be looked at in the context of a new problem discovered with the RB20 which is the stiff suspension. That suspension has led to worse tire management and all sorts of complicated interactions with balance over the lap and pace over the stint. I don't think it's easy to blame the previous updates. It seems like there was already an issue there from the start (suspension) and now they just try to work around it until next year. Maybe the Hungary update has some new mechanical components. Mercedes did this earlier in the year.

[Sergej]

Red Bull never said that the previous upgrades didn't work. When they launched the Suzuka package, Adrian Newey said the following:


https://www.planetf1.com/news/adrian-ne ... grand-prix#:

This is the update that the media are now claiming that Adrian Newey "hated" and was a downgrade. Certain parts of F1 media are just writing "Red Bull is burning" fan fiction for their audiences. I won't name any specific out1ets or journa1ist.

Wait, I am not buying at all the PR formu1a.uno is selling, but, Newey or not, we can safely say that the upgrades that RB brought so far didn't deliver at best, to say the least; they said they changed the concept to have more room of improvement but they burnt a half a second lead in a few races, even though they kept bringing updates; you also have multiple quotes from Marko saying "I'm expecting a lot from this update" but this lot didn't appear on track.

I mean it's normal, I'm not pointing the finger at the team, diminishing returns, reality not quite matching simulator, etc, these are normal things in F1 but I think this is the picture at the moment.

You also have the disclaimer from DrObbs "You can have great results on the simulator that don’t translate to the track." which is quite telling imho.

It is more a case of the previous steps just not being that big for one reason or another (ATR restrictions and/or not being clever enough)

I am saying exactly this, for whatever reason the upgrades so far didn't bring big gains, and I don't think this was in their plan, of course you won't hear from them "oh yes we fuc*ed our upgrades" (I mean look at Vasseur, he's finding every time a new excuse not to admit their upgrade was a disaster !), it's obvious that they kinda worked, but in my opinion not as was to be expected

I think something didn't go smooth in their development plan, maybe for the suspension thing like you say, maybe for whatever reason, I don't know, but that's the feeling I have; let's hope they can recover with this update.

[f1isgood]

A lot is riding on this update. Let's see how they perform under pressure, I wonder if they've rushed it. If it doesn't deliver it can have serious consequences for this team imo: '24 and '25 WCC, '25 WDC, '25 VER... I'm excited to see what they've come up with and if they've reverted some of the earlier updates.

I think Mercedes being back is good for WCC. I think 2024 will be close but both titles will go to Red Bull as long as they keep up their operations. 2025 will be the real test.

Also I think Verstappen won't move until end of 2026, even if Mercedes make the best car next year. 2026 will be the best time to see where to jump ship or to stay, and while the chances are low, if Mercedes doesn't make a strong engine, we will all look back at this time as a rather interesting period.

McLaren and Lando are also psychologically quite hit in my view with how their fastest car has failed to win the races so far and I am looking forward to how they eventually react -- except it's been 25 percent of the season and they really haven't reacted.