2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
f1isgood
f1isgood
1
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:52 pm
Location: Continental Europe

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

FW17 wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2024 1:59 am
f1isgood wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2024 7:58 pm
FW17 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2024 6:05 pm
“We had an aspect of the car which allowed us to rebalance the car, [from track to track],” Wache explains. “We benefitted from this for two years. But now the others have introduced this front wing deflection to allow them to balance the car and in that aspect they are now in front of us.

“To be able to rebalance the car without this you need some movement in the suspension and the softer you are the better that is, which is good to allow you to tune the balance but maybe not for downforce. The front wing deflection of our rivals allowed them to rebalance their car but retain a much stiffer suspension.”

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... yiSOo5BhSk
I recall Wache saying at some point that Front Wings are not that important and not the focus for these regulations. Fair enough helped Red Bull win 45+ races the last 3 years. That said, I wonder how this flexi-wing + floor thing will be made to work for next year because Red Bull need it. Or will they do something on their own?

Interesting times since 2026 is close there needs to be a compromise.
Using flexi wings under the guise of passing all tests is the teams playing with fire. It is something that can be banned any time.

2021 rear wings of RBR passed all tests, they were asked to change to have a closer championship.

Teams are giving fia a lot of power with this, and tfia are going to use it at the most opertune time. Just like fia did with 2003 michelin tyres
The FIA knows very well what has happened has has turned a blind eye to it all of this year to be fair. In 2021, I am not sure what the point was anyways -- it wasn't like Mercedes was slower, they were just better at complaining.

I hope the FIA doesn't do something stupid.
Call a spade, a spade.

f1isgood
f1isgood
1
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:52 pm
Location: Continental Europe

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Waz wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2024 9:23 pm
Paa wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2024 7:52 pm
Interesting quote.
It is not clear to me whether Red Bull has lost that "aspect" of the car which allowed them to re-balance for 2 years? He uses past tense.
Or they still have it, just flexi wing is simply superior?
It's really interesting for sure. Red Bull are the kings of flexing bodywork, so it makes me think of a short lived article or video that I only ever saw mentioned here, that Red Bulls real trick was in the suspension, and it was something the FIA asked them to remove after Miami.

Edit: IIRC an extra reservoir for hydraulic fluid
Red Bull used to be the kings at least pre Ground Effect cars I would say. That said, the team has changed a lot since then with a lot of people being forced to leave because of the budget cap.

But I still doubt anything happened at Miami to Red Bull personally. Potentially yes but I think a lot of issues always show up when you are chasing since you are far more at the limit of what the car can give.
Call a spade, a spade.

User avatar
organic
1057
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:24 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

FW17 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2024 6:05 pm
“We had an aspect of the car which allowed us to rebalance the car, [from track to track],” Wache explains. “We benefitted from this for two years. But now the others have introduced this front wing deflection to allow them to balance the car and in that aspect they are now in front of us.

“To be able to rebalance the car without this you need some movement in the suspension and the softer you are the better that is, which is good to allow you to tune the balance but maybe not for downforce. The front wing deflection of our rivals allowed them to rebalance their car but retain a much stiffer suspension.”

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... yiSOo5BhSk
Yea adds up. Nobody else was able to be competitive with red bull at tracks like spa, china and Suzuka in 2022-23 and early 2024 because of their large range of corner types. Once others had a tool to balance the car across a range of corner types that race pace advantage disappeared at those types of circuits immediately: the car was actually performing better at stop/go tracks (Canada, Austria) with small range of corner types than at proper race tracks which previously had been its strong suit. I think Barcelona quali followed by Austria quali was when that felt most apparent

CHT
CHT
-6
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:24 am

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Is it true that Max is the only F1 driver who have won the WDC with a team that finished 3rd in constructor?

User avatar
Paa
6
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:43 pm

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

CHT wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2024 12:32 am
Is it true that Max is the only F1 driver who have won the WDC with a team that finished 3rd in constructor?
Nope.
His father-in-law also did it in '83.

User avatar
Wouter
111
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Helmut Marko today in Speedweek (German). Translated by DeepL:

The excitement continues

I'm sure that we can expect a close battle at the top next year. That's normal in the last year of a regulation period. The field moves closer together. Because it is customary in Formula 1 to copy the successful concepts. And the longer the regulations remain stable, the more similar the cars become. This automatically increases the power density.

We will give it our all again next year. There will be some changes in the team, because there have been some departures. But we have a broad base and I believe that our team is capable of providing Max with a car in which he can fight for the world championship again. And we know what needs to be done. This car needs a wider working window so that it doesn't immediately lose its balance in the event of slight temperature fluctuations or minor technical changes.

That's exactly what our engineers are working on. After all, 40 points of downforce is good, but four tenths on the stop line is what interests me and the driver. The driving behaviour must be predictable for the driver so that he can build up the necessary confidence.

And as we have the fastest and best driver in the field in Max, it is also obvious that we should cater to his preferences when it comes to the car's handling characteristics during development. I am sure that as long as we provide him with a competitive car, he will stay with Red Bull Racing.

We will be announcing news on the driver pairing for next year in the next few days. There's a lot of speculation about this, including rumours about possible transfer fees, which are complete nonsense.

Strong young talent

Yuki Tsunoda was allowed out on track in the RB20 during post-season testing and the team was happy with his technical feedback. In this respect, he is far better than he is rumoured to be. He is just one of many talents we have in our ranks. We are also very well positioned in the junior classes. In Nikola Tsolov, for example, we have a title contender in Formula 3, and we are also strongly represented in the new Eurocup. In addition, we are also sending promising talent onto the track in the English Formula 4 with the Hitech GP Team.

We can also expect a lot from the youngsters in Formula 1. It is pleasing that after a long period in which there were hardly any changes, several promising rookies can show what they are made of. Next year we have Gabriel Bortoleto in the field, who has won Formula 2, and Oliver Bearman and Kimi Antonelli are also moving up. And if we were to field a junior at Racing Bulls, that would mean four newcomers in the field, so we could already talk about a generational change.
The Power of Dreams!

CjC
CjC
12
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:13 pm

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Wouter wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2024 11:33 am
Helmut Marko today in Speedweek (German). Translated by DeepL:

The excitement continues

I'm sure that we can expect a close battle at the top next year. That's normal in the last year of a regulation period. The field moves closer together. Because it is customary in Formula 1 to copy the successful concepts. And the longer the regulations remain stable, the more similar the cars become. This automatically increases the power density.

We will give it our all again next year. There will be some changes in the team, because there have been some departures. But we have a broad base and I believe that our team is capable of providing Max with a car in which he can fight for the world championship again. And we know what needs to be done. This car needs a wider working window so that it doesn't immediately lose its balance in the event of slight temperature fluctuations or minor technical changes.

That's exactly what our engineers are working on. After all, 40 points of downforce is good, but four tenths on the stop line is what interests me and the driver. The driving behaviour must be predictable for the driver so that he can build up the necessary confidence.

And as we have the fastest and best driver in the field in Max, it is also obvious that we should cater to his preferences when it comes to the car's handling characteristics during development. I am sure that as long as we provide him with a competitive car, he will stay with Red Bull Racing.

We will be announcing news on the driver pairing for next year in the next few days. There's a lot of speculation about this, including rumours about possible transfer fees, which are complete nonsense.

Strong young talent

Yuki Tsunoda was allowed out on track in the RB20 during post-season testing and the team was happy with his technical feedback. In this respect, he is far better than he is rumoured to be. He is just one of many talents we have in our ranks. We are also very well positioned in the junior classes. In Nikola Tsolov, for example, we have a title contender in Formula 3, and we are also strongly represented in the new Eurocup. In addition, we are also sending promising talent onto the track in the English Formula 4 with the Hitech GP Team.

We can also expect a lot from the youngsters in Formula 1. It is pleasing that after a long period in which there were hardly any changes, several promising rookies can show what they are made of. Next year we have Gabriel Bortoleto in the field, who has won Formula 2, and Oliver Bearman and Kimi Antonelli are also moving up. And if we were to field a junior at Racing Bulls, that would mean four newcomers in the field, so we could already talk about a generational change.
Interesting that he said the balance was lost with ‘minor technical changes’.
Can anyone shed any light/ remind me of what he might mean please?
Just a fan's point of view

User avatar
Wouter
111
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Perez ❌
Lawson for 2025 alongside Verstappen ✅

➡️ It will be officially announced this afternoon!


The Power of Dreams!

collindsilva
collindsilva
1
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:37 pm

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Feel for yuki, he deserved the seat...

Emag
Emag
83
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:56 pm

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

I don't understand why they completely disregard Yuki like this. He beat every single teammate they put against him as a candidate for the RedBull seat.
Developer of F1InsightsHub

User avatar
chrisc90
41
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2022 8:22 pm

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Image
images upload


Quite fitting
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

User avatar
Wouter
111
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Just another stupid decision. Yuki deserves the seat and rookie Liam isn't ready yet for a top team.

Maybe they choose to keep Yuki at VCARB because Hadjar will be there and Hadjar and Liam is a bad combination with both less experience.
The Power of Dreams!

User avatar
lio007
319
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Austria

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Wouter wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2024 10:48 am
Just another stupid decision. Yuki deserves the seat and rookie Liam isn't ready yet for a top team.

Maybe they choose to keep Yuki at VCARB because Hadjar will be there and Hadjar and Liam is a bad combination with both less experience.
I think that's the case! With Lawson and Hadjar it would be another difficult year for Racing Bulls. And with Yuki they have a known factor in the team.
That's why I wouldn't call that a "stupid decision".

From a marketing point of view, both, Liam and Yuki, are not outstandig.

User avatar
Big Tea
99
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Wouter wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2024 10:48 am
Just another stupid decision. Yuki deserves the seat and rookie Liam isn't ready yet for a top team.

Maybe they choose to keep Yuki at VCARB because Hadjar will be there and Hadjar and Liam is a bad combination with both less experience.
Could it be anything to do with manager, or management team?
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

Rikhart
Rikhart
19
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:21 pm

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Emag wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2024 10:32 am
I don't understand why they completely disregard Yuki like this. He beat every single teammate they put against him as a candidate for the RedBull seat.
The first problem was completely disregarding Sainz. Now they choose the less prepared of their sister team drivers.

Hey, at least it's not another year of Perez, I guess :lol: