2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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jambuka
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Does anyone think Barcelona will be when we see the real sf-24 unleashed? Seems like all prior races they have one thing or the other which the team did not get right.

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bluechris
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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jambuka wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2024 7:51 pm
Does anyone think Barcelona will be when we see the real sf-24 unleashed? Seems like all prior races they have one thing or the other which the team did not get right.
We need once good weather but this is not enough, the team needs time to learn the car and if there is new floor then the time to optimize it will be greater.
Off course once they can be lucky and do a MCLaren update but luck is not on Ferrari side lately.

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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FDD wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2024 10:33 pm
Partially I can agree with you.
Why?
We do not know what is happening in the factory ie we have only their statements!!
I'll put McL a side now, not to complicate too much.
We have info from Ferrari that the new floor is for ENG in pipeline, but also we do not know when they started to develop, we do not have exact info on that and we'll never get such info for the ongoing season at least.
If they planed for ENG and rush it for Spain it is maybe possible to develop and then produce 1 or maybe 2 pieces for single car which is also hard to believe if the timeline info is correct and not speculated by them.
Production itself is also very very complicated because in the single piece floor different installations must be included.
Little winglets, forms of the floor pavement and other appendixes are easy to add as a walk in a park as we already see.
Then we do not have pics of the floor underneath, only of the diff if I remember right and then we need the same pics of the floor from Spain.
This guy works directly in the racing industry on developing and production of carbon parts, but I do not know where, cause he has non disclosure agreement on that, even he can not speak for which category of racing. He precisely know in a single day deviation time needed to develop/produce for all pieces of the car from different materials and he was always 100% right.
However if Ferrari declare (which is must if I am right?) a new floor (even for single car) then that is for sure that they speculated for the timeline. You can read this as that they were 100% sure for ENG but not 100% sure for Spain and certainly they did not tell this in public. I want to say that they certainly did not change their plan in the last 2 weeks for the aforementioned reasons. I think you understand my point.
At the end of the day I hope that they have plan to eventually bring this floor for Spain and you know why I hope for this :)
They probably have actually decided to speed things up after Canada, it's far from impossible. Seems the timeline with these cars is development until 6-7 weeks before the target introduction race, this was reported for Imola upgrade as it was signed-off in late March and introduced mid May. This is a timeline for tooling and at least 2 sets of parts for each car, ie for Imola it meant tooling and 4 new pieces of:

- reworked floor with new rear corner, diffuser and small changes to edge wing
- new front wings with (seemingly) only 3rd and 4th flap changed
- new rear wing with all-new endplates and flap tips
- all-new engine cover and sidepods, at least 8-9 all-new pieces of bodywork
- all-new radiator intake ducts
- other small parts for fitting, assembly, etc

As they are making at least 4 pieces of each, it means you have a lot of ways to organise how and when parts will be produced. You can have them made each 4 times at the same time (this is usually quicker) or you can make a full set of parts at a time and do it 4 times as two basic combinations and all the other numerous variations. It's a very flexible thing, you need to take into account many unexpected situations and give enough time to resolve them. You also make a timeline for normal working hours, since you can't have people working overtime every working day so you don't plan that either.

With the 6-week timeline, this means Silverstone package was signed-off late May, probably right before Monaco when everyone was in the factory for the final Design Review and this means something like 15-16 days until the Monday after Canada race (June 10th). In that time tooling was most likely finished already and it's possible part manufacture only just began, meaning they can rearrange manufacture order to suit them best for re-evaluated targets, ie partial introduction in Spain. Introducing 2-week overtime hours and extra people working on it, you can speed things up quite a lot.

Other motorsport categories pale in comparison to F1, from engineering standpoint to manufacture and all internal processes, so anyone outside a top F1 team saying something can't be done is not really a fully credible source. WEC has very limited development now and their calendar is very stretched. A MotoGP machine is simply much simpler than an F1 machine. Other top racing categories are spec-series - IndyCar, F2, F3, FE - so it's even more different from F1...
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 10:07 am
My bet is still Monaco wing with new Canada beam wing
The "called it" streak continues :mrgreen:

Image
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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scuderiabrandon
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2024 11:00 am
Vanja #66 wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2024 10:07 am
My bet is still Monaco wing with new Canada beam wing
The "called it" streak continues :mrgreen:

https://i.ibb.co/VYw0XBm/bar-fer-24.jpg
According to Formu1a uno it is a new med-high wing

The dead giveaway that it is less loaded, compared the Monaco one, through the mainplane is the radius of the endplate rollover.

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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scuderiabrandon wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:15 pm
According to Formu1a uno it is a new med-high wing

The dead giveaway that it is less loaded, compared the Monaco one, through the mainplane is the radius of the endplate rollover.
Indeed, I was fooled by the angle of Fabrega's photo, I posted Formula.uno's photos on car thread, it's quite clear when everything's compared. Good job Ferrari, looks decent
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

FDD
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2024 7:52 am
FDD wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2024 10:33 pm
Partially I can agree with you.
Why?
We do not know what is happening in the factory ie we have only their statements!!
I'll put McL a side now, not to complicate too much.
We have info from Ferrari that the new floor is for ENG in pipeline, but also we do not know when they started to develop, we do not have exact info on that and we'll never get such info for the ongoing season at least.
If they planed for ENG and rush it for Spain it is maybe possible to develop and then produce 1 or maybe 2 pieces for single car which is also hard to believe if the timeline info is correct and not speculated by them.
Production itself is also very very complicated because in the single piece floor different installations must be included.
Little winglets, forms of the floor pavement and other appendixes are easy to add as a walk in a park as we already see.
Then we do not have pics of the floor underneath, only of the diff if I remember right and then we need the same pics of the floor from Spain.
This guy works directly in the racing industry on developing and production of carbon parts, but I do not know where, cause he has non disclosure agreement on that, even he can not speak for which category of racing. He precisely know in a single day deviation time needed to develop/produce for all pieces of the car from different materials and he was always 100% right.
However if Ferrari declare (which is must if I am right?) a new floor (even for single car) then that is for sure that they speculated for the timeline. You can read this as that they were 100% sure for ENG but not 100% sure for Spain and certainly they did not tell this in public. I want to say that they certainly did not change their plan in the last 2 weeks for the aforementioned reasons. I think you understand my point.
At the end of the day I hope that they have plan to eventually bring this floor for Spain and you know why I hope for this :)
They probably have actually decided to speed things up after Canada, it's far from impossible. Seems the timeline with these cars is development until 6-7 weeks before the target introduction race, this was reported for Imola upgrade as it was signed-off in late March and introduced mid May. This is a timeline for tooling and at least 2 sets of parts for each car, ie for Imola it meant tooling and 4 new pieces of:

- reworked floor with new rear corner, diffuser and small changes to edge wing
- new front wings with (seemingly) only 3rd and 4th flap changed
- new rear wing with all-new endplates and flap tips
- all-new engine cover and sidepods, at least 8-9 all-new pieces of bodywork
- all-new radiator intake ducts
- other small parts for fitting, assembly, etc

As they are making at least 4 pieces of each, it means you have a lot of ways to organise how and when parts will be produced. You can have them made each 4 times at the same time (this is usually quicker) or you can make a full set of parts at a time and do it 4 times as two basic combinations and all the other numerous variations. It's a very flexible thing, you need to take into account many unexpected situations and give enough time to resolve them. You also make a timeline for normal working hours, since you can't have people working overtime every working day so you don't plan that either.

With the 6-week timeline, this means Silverstone package was signed-off late May, probably right before Monaco when everyone was in the factory for the final Design Review and this means something like 15-16 days until the Monday after Canada race (June 10th). In that time tooling was most likely finished already and it's possible part manufacture only just began, meaning they can rearrange manufacture order to suit them best for re-evaluated targets, ie partial introduction in Spain. Introducing 2-week overtime hours and extra people working on it, you can speed things up quite a lot.

Other motorsport categories pale in comparison to F1, from engineering standpoint to manufacture and all internal processes, so anyone outside a top F1 team saying something can't be done is not really a fully credible source. WEC has very limited development now and their calendar is very stretched. A MotoGP machine is simply much simpler than an F1 machine. Other top racing categories are spec-series - IndyCar, F2, F3, FE - so it's even more different from F1...
I do not know whether this guy works on F1 parts...
However whit this explanation that you presented adiionally I can fully agree AFAIK.

FDD
FDD
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2024 7:52 am
FDD wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2024 10:33 pm
Partially I can agree with you.
Why?
We do not know what is happening in the factory ie we have only their statements!!
I'll put McL a side now, not to complicate too much.
We have info from Ferrari that the new floor is for ENG in pipeline, but also we do not know when they started to develop, we do not have exact info on that and we'll never get such info for the ongoing season at least.
If they planed for ENG and rush it for Spain it is maybe possible to develop and then produce 1 or maybe 2 pieces for single car which is also hard to believe if the timeline info is correct and not speculated by them.
Production itself is also very very complicated because in the single piece floor different installations must be included.
Little winglets, forms of the floor pavement and other appendixes are easy to add as a walk in a park as we already see.
Then we do not have pics of the floor underneath, only of the diff if I remember right and then we need the same pics of the floor from Spain.
This guy works directly in the racing industry on developing and production of carbon parts, but I do not know where, cause he has non disclosure agreement on that, even he can not speak for which category of racing. He precisely know in a single day deviation time needed to develop/produce for all pieces of the car from different materials and he was always 100% right.
However if Ferrari declare (which is must if I am right?) a new floor (even for single car) then that is for sure that they speculated for the timeline. You can read this as that they were 100% sure for ENG but not 100% sure for Spain and certainly they did not tell this in public. I want to say that they certainly did not change their plan in the last 2 weeks for the aforementioned reasons. I think you understand my point.
At the end of the day I hope that they have plan to eventually bring this floor for Spain and you know why I hope for this :)
They probably have actually decided to speed things up after Canada, it's far from impossible. Seems the timeline with these cars is development until 6-7 weeks before the target introduction race, this was reported for Imola upgrade as it was signed-off in late March and introduced mid May. This is a timeline for tooling and at least 2 sets of parts for each car, ie for Imola it meant tooling and 4 new pieces of:

- reworked floor with new rear corner, diffuser and small changes to edge wing
- new front wings with (seemingly) only 3rd and 4th flap changed
- new rear wing with all-new endplates and flap tips
- all-new engine cover and sidepods, at least 8-9 all-new pieces of bodywork
- all-new radiator intake ducts
- other small parts for fitting, assembly, etc

As they are making at least 4 pieces of each, it means you have a lot of ways to organise how and when parts will be produced. You can have them made each 4 times at the same time (this is usually quicker) or you can make a full set of parts at a time and do it 4 times as two basic combinations and all the other numerous variations. It's a very flexible thing, you need to take into account many unexpected situations and give enough time to resolve them. You also make a timeline for normal working hours, since you can't have people working overtime every working day so you don't plan that either.

With the 6-week timeline, this means Silverstone package was signed-off late May, probably right before Monaco when everyone was in the factory for the final Design Review and this means something like 15-16 days until the Monday after Canada race (June 10th). In that time tooling was most likely finished already and it's possible part manufacture only just began, meaning they can rearrange manufacture order to suit them best for re-evaluated targets, ie partial introduction in Spain. Introducing 2-week overtime hours and extra people working on it, you can speed things up quite a lot.

Other motorsport categories pale in comparison to F1, from engineering standpoint to manufacture and all internal processes, so anyone outside a top F1 team saying something can't be done is not really a fully credible source. WEC has very limited development now and their calendar is very stretched. A MotoGP machine is simply much simpler than an F1 machine. Other top racing categories are spec-series - IndyCar, F2, F3, FE - so it's even more different from F1...
Vanja I do not know why this is in both threads car and team???

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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FDD wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2024 3:13 pm
Vanja I do not know why this is in both threads car and team???
I replied in team thread because we moved away from discussion actual car and into production planning :mrgreen:
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

FDD
FDD
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2024 3:18 pm
FDD wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2024 3:13 pm
Vanja I do not know why this is in both threads car and team???
I replied in team thread because we moved away from discussion actual car and into production planning :mrgreen:
Ok, thank you, I started wondering if someone hacked my profile again.

FDD
FDD
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2024 7:52 am
FDD wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2024 10:33 pm
Partially I can agree with you.
Why?
We do not know what is happening in the factory ie we have only their statements!!
I'll put McL a side now, not to complicate too much.
We have info from Ferrari that the new floor is for ENG in pipeline, but also we do not know when they started to develop, we do not have exact info on that and we'll never get such info for the ongoing season at least.
If they planed for ENG and rush it for Spain it is maybe possible to develop and then produce 1 or maybe 2 pieces for single car which is also hard to believe if the timeline info is correct and not speculated by them.
Production itself is also very very complicated because in the single piece floor different installations must be included.
Little winglets, forms of the floor pavement and other appendixes are easy to add as a walk in a park as we already see.
Then we do not have pics of the floor underneath, only of the diff if I remember right and then we need the same pics of the floor from Spain.
This guy works directly in the racing industry on developing and production of carbon parts, but I do not know where, cause he has non disclosure agreement on that, even he can not speak for which category of racing. He precisely know in a single day deviation time needed to develop/produce for all pieces of the car from different materials and he was always 100% right.
However if Ferrari declare (which is must if I am right?) a new floor (even for single car) then that is for sure that they speculated for the timeline. You can read this as that they were 100% sure for ENG but not 100% sure for Spain and certainly they did not tell this in public. I want to say that they certainly did not change their plan in the last 2 weeks for the aforementioned reasons. I think you understand my point.
At the end of the day I hope that they have plan to eventually bring this floor for Spain and you know why I hope for this :)
They probably have actually decided to speed things up after Canada, it's far from impossible. Seems the timeline with these cars is development until 6-7 weeks before the target introduction race, this was reported for Imola upgrade as it was signed-off in late March and introduced mid May. This is a timeline for tooling and at least 2 sets of parts for each car, ie for Imola it meant tooling and 4 new pieces of:

- reworked floor with new rear corner, diffuser and small changes to edge wing
- new front wings with (seemingly) only 3rd and 4th flap changed
- new rear wing with all-new endplates and flap tips
- all-new engine cover and sidepods, at least 8-9 all-new pieces of bodywork
- all-new radiator intake ducts
- other small parts for fitting, assembly, etc

As they are making at least 4 pieces of each, it means you have a lot of ways to organise how and when parts will be produced. You can have them made each 4 times at the same time (this is usually quicker) or you can make a full set of parts at a time and do it 4 times as two basic combinations and all the other numerous variations. It's a very flexible thing, you need to take into account many unexpected situations and give enough time to resolve them. You also make a timeline for normal working hours, since you can't have people working overtime every working day so you don't plan that either.

With the 6-week timeline, this means Silverstone package was signed-off late May, probably right before Monaco when everyone was in the factory for the final Design Review and this means something like 15-16 days until the Monday after Canada race (June 10th). In that time tooling was most likely finished already and it's possible part manufacture only just began, meaning they can rearrange manufacture order to suit them best for re-evaluated targets, ie partial introduction in Spain. Introducing 2-week overtime hours and extra people working on it, you can speed things up quite a lot.

Other motorsport categories pale in comparison to F1, from engineering standpoint to manufacture and all internal processes, so anyone outside a top F1 team saying something can't be done is not really a fully credible source. WEC has very limited development now and their calendar is very stretched. A MotoGP machine is simply much simpler than an F1 machine. Other top racing categories are spec-series - IndyCar, F2, F3, FE - so it's even more different from F1...
Forget to mention, he said 7 weeks for F1 as you said 6-7 weeks that is spot on.
He knows what he is talking about believe me and nobody know is he working on F1 parts also, actually as i said i think nobody know on which racing categories he is working, but everything that he said was correct. He, You and some other guys here do not want to mention are my references and usually I compare words/opinions from these my references.

KimiRai
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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KimiRai wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2024 11:14 pm
Nugnes suggests Cardile may take advantage of the Aston offer to renegotiate with Ferrari but it is very likely he will remain in his position.

FeelHeel
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Hoping Cardile stays at Ferrari. Give him the money. Proven success and continuity are in his favor.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man, but he was not a good man.
— Phil Hill

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organic
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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Duchessa says this Barcelona package is 80% of what they planned for Silverstone originally


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Re: 2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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organic wrote:Duchessa says this Barcelona package is 80% of what they planned for Silverstone originally

Hopefully this gains them some real performance, they probably have one more big update left before next season takes over.